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Pinatasim
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[22529586]
[2012-06-25 19:51:36 +0000 UTC]
(Belgium)
# Statistics
Favourites: 712; Deviations: 2; Watchers: 4
Watching: 90; Pageviews: 6201; Comments Made: 157; Friends: 90
# Comments
Comments: 57
thanks as allways and just for curiosity's sake. If you go to singapour when would that be?
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i feel like i'm flooding your comment page haha...but thanks as allways
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thanks for the fav, again^^
which side of belgium are you from?
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you're welcome
i currently reside in wallonia, but i'm staying a bit all over the country (not hard since it's quite small 
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Alors tu parle francais? I'm living in liege at the moment, so i was curious haha.
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bien sûr, français, anglais, néerlandais...
Oh,I thought you lived in Luxembourg, what brings you to this fabulous country?
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bah c'est juste a coté, et comme je vie avec une belge et que j'ai fait mes études ici. Je suis pas retourné au lux.
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des études artistiques je suppose?
je me suis tjr posé la question si c'était possible de vivre du freelance en habitant en belgique/au lux.?
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Oui, j'ai fais mes études a st-luc puis l'académie. Mais j'ai surtout appris grâce a internet.
Sinon pour ce qui est du free-lance, je travaille surtout par internet, mais je gagne pas encore asser pour en vivre. Heureusement que ma copine est pharmacienne.
Il y a quelques studio d'animation aussi au Luxembourg. Mais ils veulent qu'on travaille in-house, mais comme ils ont du mal a trouver des bon artistes locaux, ils sont obliger de faire venir les gens au luxembourg.
Enfin mon but c'est surtout de vivre de la bande-dessiné, mais c'est pas facile de se faire éditer.
Et toi tu fais quoi?
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haaa st-luc, moi j'ai pris de cours d'art graphiques et illustration a (st-luc) Bruxelle et Anvers. mais a cause de certain événements je suis pas sur de finir l'étude en belgique
et comme tu le dis, j'ai appris plus par internet
la maintenant je viens de finir mon année a anvers, mais je travaille un peu en freelance par ici et par la.. j'ai une sorte de job comme "concept artist" pour un graphic novel et des projets qui en suivent...
maintenant la question est comment je vais faire pour l'année prochaine vu que tout cela ne paye pas assez (dommage)
Travailler in-house c'est pas si mal que ça non? je pense que c'est plutôt dur de avoir assez de clients en tant que freelance pour pouvoir en vivre?
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Je ne savais pas qu'il y avais aussi st-luc a Anvers. Je te parlerais bien en neerlandais, maar mijn neederlands is niet good. Ik spreek it an betje omdad mijn beeste friend from holland is. Mais je suis pas très doué.
En ce qui concerne travailler in-house. C'est intéressant. Mais c'est toujours des contrat de quelques mois, et ensuite tu peux a nouveaux trouver du boulot, tu ne peux rien montrer dans ton portfolio avant que le film sorte. Et quand il sort enfin, le travail n'est plus de ton niveau actuel et t'es même pas sur de pouvoir le montrer.
Apres, ça paye plutôt bien, et si vraiment ça ne marche pas en free-lance, j'y réfléchirais. Mais j'aime aussi l'idée de travailler sur un projet qui est personnel et qui m'appartient.
Je sais pas, qu'est-ce que tu en pense. Tu veux travailler in-house ou tu préférerais rester free-lance si tu as le choix.
Apres, c'est vrai que c'est pas facile mais si algenpfleger ou noah bradley y arrivent, pourquoi pas nous?
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pas de problème, je vais essayer de parler en mon meilleur français alors
oui, c'est pas très connu apparemment. moi aussi je l'ai seulement découvert l'année avant d'y aller. pas des mauvaise écoles du tout, mais j'y ai plus appris grand chose après ce que j'avais appris en secondaire..
c'est vrai que pour se faire un portfolio, c'est plus difficile en travaillant in-house. je suppose qu'il faudra faire sa après les heures de travaille alors.
le grand avantage en travaillant in-house c'est qu'on est sur de ne pas avoir "too much month at the end of the money" (oh que c'est marrant )
alor j'ai l'intention de commencer en tant que freelance, mais je pense que c'est pas une mauvaise chose d'aller in-house après un certain temps.
et puis, on peut encore tjr retourner au freelance après..
personelement je préférerais pouvoir vivre de mon travaille freelance, mais je sais que un job in-house (qui est intéressant et qui paye assez pour en vivre) me plairait tout aussi bien. les deux ont des avantages que l'autre n'a pas.
c'est un niveau que j'aimerais atteindre, mais il me faudra encore plusieurs années pour y arriver
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We can also talk in english if it's a bit easier for you. I don't mind^^. But your french is very very good, i would love to speak dutch as good as you speak french.
As for jobs etc... I don't really know. It's not easy because i would be more then happy to work in-house for a big studio like ubisoft, valve or iven big movies studios. But these jobs are very hard to get, especially for people who live in Belgium like us.
So what's left are small houses. They can't pay as much as the big studios and you won't get the same recognition once you are freelance again.
If you tell your clients that you worked for ubisoft, you can be sure to get a lot of jobs and be well payed on credits alone. But you probably won't get that from the small studios.
Now all depends on your end goal. If it's job security or money you want then in-house may be the way to go. But i personally would want to end up freelance in the long run. Iven if i had a job at a big studio and i know of a lot of people who would die to work for a big studio like valve, i would probably not be happy in the long run.
If you are freelancer, it will be hard in the beginning. But once you have made yourself known, and have a good list of clients that pay you well. You can basically work form anywhere you want. You can choose the jobs you want to do, in the long run of course, not in the beginning. And the most important thing, if you manage to work on your own ip, like a graphic novel etc... you work for yourself and not somebody else. And that is actually very important to me.
Now of course, it's not easy, but like you said, iven now you manage to get some jobs. And you can only improve from here. The hardest for me at least is the networking and getting yourself out there part. I don't know how you handle it. It's sad that at st-luc you get lessons that really won't ever be useful, but not once you get lessons about putting yourself in the market.
Anyway, i really hope we will both make it haha. Sorry if i'm writting to much
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english or french, doesn't really matter to me
well for the big studio jobs.. i wouldn't mind moving to another country if that would allow me to have better jobs.
sure, it's pretty hard to land one of the greater jobs, but i like to think that if i don't try to get there/become good enough i'll never get there anyway.
So i keep on trying, maybe dreaming, but who knows maybe one day i'll get somewhere that pleases me
for the moment freelancing suites me best, got some clients, still have time for personal work... until i find something better, i'll just stick with that i think ^^
although the danger of procrastination is a bit bigger when you work for yourself..because working for a company might give you the pressure you need to start actually working.
at least it works for me. i can be a real slacker on certain days.. even though i always feel bad about it afterwards
about the networking,
i just started talking to artists that inspired me or who's work i really love. asking some advice or their opinion about a subject. and that really helped me getting a better view on the career/study path i wanted to follow. artists aren't as inaccessible as i thought.
currently i'm working on some sort of portfolio site on which i can post some serious work (most of the things i post here are just random and old drawings)
but unfortunately the work i'm doing for the novel etc. can't be posted yet.. even though i'd love to know what people think of it
i had the same feeling about art studies in general (college at least) you learn stuff, can't deny that. but the truly useful things I had to learn from internet or other artists..who learned it just the same way.
don't worry about the talking, it's a pleasure to talk to someone who has a recognizable situation
good luck!
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I'm living in Belgium long enough to know that the french side is way worse at dutch then the dutch side is at french. And none is interested in the germane side which is rather fluent in both the few times I've spoken to them. But Belgium is strange that way. In luxembourg we all speak at least Luxembourgian, french and German, and most are very fluent in english too. We don't have a choice since none of the people coming to work from Belgium, Germany or France are speaking Luxembourgian and since our country is so small anyway, you better speak something else haha.
As for big studio work. Yeah of course, i would move to. Refusing to work for a big studio would be very very dumb. I've met Christophe rendu who worked on arthur et les minimois from luc besson and once worked for ubisoft. Since then he gets jobs offers all the time and he gets to ask a ton of money per commission. He just got lucky that a friend of his had a job there and when they needed someone they thought of him.
I think luck is a big part of the equation. And as for the dreamer part. If we weren't dreamer, we would probably do something else. It's not like art is the most realistic carrier choice haha.
I struggled a lot with procrastination when i was at st-luc. Mostly because the way they teached us wasn't suited for me. But I didn't know that at the time. I learned drawing at 19 and didn't know much about anything. It's only once i got out of there and saw that i was still not good enough that i decided i should go the the académy des beaux art to get a bit more time to learn. That's when i finally learned what was up on the internet and really started to learn. I never went to school except when i had to, and basically drew all day trying to get back the time i wasted. Since then i never had procrastination issues.
Once you become closer to 30, you don't feel like you have the time to waste anymore. I'm 27...
about networking. I should try that. But i'm rather shy. What are some of the responses you've got, and who did you talk to. I'm sure there had to be some very interesting conversation. The closest i get to talk to other artists is listening to podcasts and draw videos haha.
As for the graphic novel, i hear you. I'm working on one too and can't show anything...it's rather frustrating especially since it takes so much time to do and you don't get to show it... And knowing what somebody things about it would be nice.
Well i'm certainly very happy to talk to someone whose situation is close to mine and who has some of the same goals. Since none of my friend have anything to do with art, at all...it's rather difficult to talk about these things.
take care
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to be honest, i often just forget we even have a german-speaking part in belgium... nobody EVER talks about it
on the languages, i'm not sure what the thing with belgium is. i actually know of almost no flemish people who can actually talk french (or good enough at least) but they often seem not to like the walloons either.. which is rather weird cause in my experience the ones of whom i know they have met walloons, do like them just as much as other people. on the other hand, the flemish who have never met a walloon/french-speaking person seem to despise them the most... (can also be said about the walloons though
i try not care too much about the disputes people have on this subject...because it's just useless.
well yeah, i guess if you are good enough or have contact to get you in one of these big companies.. it's a lot easier to get the jobs, i suppose that's also one of the reasons why everybody would want one of these jobs
the novel i (and the team i work with) for the moment is still in it's "baby steps" (i don't know if this expression is used in english?
but a friend of mine called me like two weaks ago to tell me he wanted me to meet someone he knew.
I didn't know anything about the guy, but turned out he has his own little company, worked with wizards of the coast,... (as a programmer) and apparently he was really interested in our concept, just by being the idea in a few big lines.. now he proposed to work on some sort of indie-game as a side project of ours, while we still hold the author's rights on the work. he'd only make some money when we sell him a licence so he can make it public.
it's not as big as studios like ubisoft, Valve, Bioware... but indie games are a good way to start.
so i guess it's really one thing you need to get anywhere in life... connections
and some luck.
i actually discoverd concept art and everything that goes with it... exactly a year a go now, just after my finals of my first year.
it was like, finally finding the thing i REALLY want to do, and that hasn't changed yet so..
and to be honest, i learned some basic's in painting/drawing/...etc, when i was younger, but the last few years i just didn't learn anything.. untill i started talking to other artists like adrian smith (a lot of traditional paintings too!) and really started to aalyse their work, watching tutorials and practicing.
internet has thought me a lot more in the past year than schools have for the past 3 or 4 years.
procrastination still get's up to me sometimes. but now it's more because i'm watching tutorials etc instead of just "derping" around. so i guess it's not that bad
concerning the contacts, i just tried to approach other artists in friendly way instead of a "overreacting,yourworkisheavenonearth-fanboy reaction"
i didn't expect much, i mean who know how many mails people like him get..
but he responded and that was one of the first contacts i made.
yes, it's really hard explaining to people what you are working on, and you can't show them anything. most people don't seem to understand it
and although i know some people who are familiar with art/art studies, most of them are completely in to this "Hipster/I'msuchaHippie"-culture that goes around in art schools nowadays. they know about painters/graphic design...but not much about "the industry".
so how do you talk about a career, to people who think you can be a hippie/hipster and live for free..(?)
luckily there are still the few people i know who can talk about subjects like this
yes, it's pleasing to finally talk to someone with a similar situation/interests.
good luck!
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Yeah i agree, most people just don't like what they don't know. And in general people find it easier to blame others rather then to think they could be part of the problem. It will probably never change...but it's a bit sad.
Your project seems interesting and i hope it will work out, but i didn't really get what part you play in it. Do you draw the graphic novel or are you taking part in the indy game about the novel?. If you are taking part in the graphic novel, do you already have a publisher? Or maybe you intend to release it online.
I'm actually very curious since i'm pretty much doing the same thing and have some difficulty's getting publishers. I'm working with an Luxembourgian author and we have send of, five pages that i drew. But as of yet we didn't get any answers at all.
Since we didn't get any answers, we decided to insist and try again...but since my drawing has very much improved since then i have to choose if i should redraw the five pages or draw the new one and show that my drawing has improved...I don't know.
As for indy jobs. I agree it's very much the best options for now. There are tons of games coming out for android and ios. So it's very much the best way to get known and gain some experience. On the other side, i had a few bad storys with indy games. But that was more due to inexperience on my part.
The first job i pretty much did a lot of roughs to show them i could draw what they wanted me to, since i didn't have a portfolio that was worth showing....but the second i talked about getting paid...they never answered back...
The second one i knew i wasn't going to get paid, but since i needed experience and a portfolio, i decided to do it anyways.
So i did the first backgrounds for his game while he would search for other artist who could do the rest of the art...because there was to much for me alone. when i was done he was amazed but since the other artist weren't up to par...he asked me to dumb it down..so it would better integrate with what they could do.
So he asked me to do tree other background and i had a week to do them...so i did and the next Monday he calls me and tells me. Look we decided to change everything. I hope you didn't start doing them...Of course i did since you wanted them for today...
So in the end i quit there...i wasn't going to get paid, the game would look ugly and i wouldn't gain anything from it..i didn't want to show ugly backgrounds in my portfolio and i would not even improve on my drawing skills....
But these are of course just bad experiences....it's just dumb because it took me 4 month of my time the both together...and in that time i could have done something productive..
As for talking to other artists...Yeah i just don't know what to say i guess. I'm not a very social person in general...and since all the other students who were with me were exactly the kind of people you described...It's not that they were not kind etc.. but they just don't have the work ethic i have.
They were the kind of people who in 5 years didn't improve at all...and they were not even trying to improve. They couldn't iven do something as simple as just learn a bit of perspective... Well they were ok for small talk but that's it.
But hey... it's not an easy path we both choose, but i certainly think that it's the right one for me. It just takes time and perseverance i guess.
well keep me updated on your project and how everything turns out.
vince
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yeah, i just tend to ignore people who want to prove points concerning languages/ethnicity,... etc because, what's even the point? they're not going to change their mind all the sudden because i tell them differently or try to convince them
well, i currently still work on completing the script, while we're also working on some sketches to know how it'l look in the final illustrations. and i'll probably be the one drawing that. the indie game however is a side-project we supervise, since we own the rights, and is being led by a friend of someone who works with me on the novel.
We're probably going to start looking for a publisher once the storyline is finished (and we can show something else than only text)
do you have any tips when approaching a publisher?
concerning the redrawing or not, i guess it doesn't really matter if you draw different pages of the story or just others, as long as they can see at what level you are at the moment. sooooo i guess you can pick what amuses you the most in this case
although i have to admit i'm still careful working together on this indie game, i don't want to get ripped of on my own project
it's really hard building a good portfolio while working on a big project, because both are quite important.
i don't know if i'd work on a project for free, because i'm trying to do this for a living. when you work full time on a project and don get any money... i think that's really hard.
especially, like you say, i could have been doing something productive/and bill-paying.
yes, the attitude of a lot of co-students is something that seemed weird to me too. i don't get the idea of "f*ck school, i'm going to do art to be cool" (#hipster/yolo)
ofcourse i don't know if the same counts for art schools in walloonia, but i've encountered many students who think like this in flemish schools.
they are still nice to talk to, but work-wise ..i'm not sure if they would ever be able /wanting to do it.
although i even had to learn perspective myself (internet,books..) because they didn't really teach the basics at school. disappointing
it sure isn't easy, but i do love it. and i honestly can't see myself do anything else
when we're a bit "further along the road of creation" i'm going to make a public page and such, so i'll certainly keep you up to date!
and you can do the same if anything comes up for yours
cheers,
Maxime
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Oh i know it's pointless. And they won't change. It's just problematic when they decide to all vote for a party who wants to separate the country in two, iven if it would be a terrible decision for both sides. But yeah, it's not like we can do much about it.
Well if you already have someone interested enough to actually invest their time in a game about it. It sure seems like a great project. Since all is still in the beginning stage. I just wish you luck and as you said. We keep each other updated.
For the publisher side. Its not that hard to contact them....it's the getting a response that is hard. But all i can say is. Go to any publishers website and you will find the information on how to contact them. They are always searching for new projects so they actually want you to contact them. Mostly it's just sending an email with your project. Be sure to have a few pages to show and an very clear outline of the story as well as a short introduction of the story in five to ten lines so they can know directly if they should invest their time on the rest of the story.
But honestly i feel like actually meeting them in person might be more productif... I decided to go to a small bd festival this summer and try to talk to the authors, and try to know how i should go about it. I'll keep you updated if anything interesting comes out of it.
For the indy part...yeah don't work for free. It was a stupid decision. But since i was still a student...and really wanted to get good fast. I thought it was a good idea at the time. But it wasn't. Now i'm all money or don't waste my time...
As for schools. Yeah they didn't teach perspective or iven drawing at all. We had some model sketching...but that's it. the rest was pretty much. Do this project for next week. Now i'm going to go do my shopping and when i'm back i hope you are all still there... It was a wate of time, but at least it gave me time to improve. And i could teach since i have a master degree and a didactique diploma. But the few hours i spend teaching while fun weren't really what i wanted to do.
As you said, i love it to. And from listening all those podcasts it seems that the beggining is the hardest.
On a side note...while reading maxime at the end of your message, i only realized that you are the maxime that commented on facebook haha. Thanks for that. I didn't know your name^^.
Anyway, keep me updated and i'll do the same^^
vince
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i'll certainly keep you updated, we're making good progress on the script, and sketches should be for really soon too
I'm so excited about it, yet so annoyed i can't share anything yet
well it's not bad i think, i had some (random) people read a test-synopsis, to see if they thought the concept/story type was interesting or not... and like 7 on 10 where REALLY interested, two others liked the concept but don't enjoy sic-fi, and another one was interested, but needed more info to see if it was good or not ....which i couldn't yet show him of course.
we'll we're currently still writing on the script, and also doing some conceptual designs on what we already have. but i think it'll take a little longer until i get a few finished pages but on the other hand... nothing stops me from starting to make few sketches
i'm curious to know if it might have any success
we'll see how it goes when we get there
the annoying part to working freelance is (in my opinion) that a lot of people think "why should i pay you, you're just drawing". they don't see it as a job..
i had a commission by a friend once (something about a logo for a school's exchange program to th U.S., he was really enthusiastic. so i replied that i could do that, but i'd ask a certain hourly rate (really low, because he's a friend) and all the sudden when you mention "paying", no more news.... and when you ask about it everybody's like "yeeeaaaah, i'll check that mail you sent me"... yeah right
i was lucky i hadn't worked on it yet.
i had a very similar experience at art schools, the only cours e learned a little where life drawing (model/sketching) but not enough to get good a something.. so if you have to teach yourself anyway...
i now did two years of art school, and i feel like at certain points they even held me back because they claimed "concept art is not real art, it's not a real job"
not really motivating but i managed to teach myself some perspective,values,... the basics
so now it's really a though decision if i'm going to continue this.. or whatever my options could be from next year on.
haha, i thought it was pretty obvious with the "piñata" in both names,.. or maybe not
sorry to keep on rambling about all this stuff,
wish you good luck with your own projects too!
thanks angain,
maxime
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If people seem exited that's probably a good sign, especially if the people you have shown it to are trust worthy. I have always trouble believing people when they say my work is good etc.. because i just see what i should have done differently.
But if you believe in the project, then it's probably because you see something in it that is worth doing, and that alone should be enough to at least try. Or maybe i'm just telling myself that^^. But the only thing i can tell you is to be persistent. If you have done all you could and nobody is giving you positive responses. Just keep trying, if it's good, eventually somebody will believe in it to.
About freelance, i know all to well how most people think about it. Most people just don't realize the work that is behind a good painting and it can be so frustrating.
An other thing that gets me so mad is how everyone things since i'm home all the time, i must be lazing around doing nothing, so it's ok to ask me for help when ever they need somebody. And when i'm telling them i'm working, they laugh...yeah right...you work.
But the problem is people just don't know how hard it is to actually get good at drawing and how time consuming it is...not even talking about all the hours of self doubt and depression when you can't get things right etc...
But i don't thing it will ever change...Because most people just think drawing is fun and something that you can do or can't do...
What's funny is that people seem to understand that learning guitar is a skill that you can learn...but can't get their head around the fact that drawing is the same.
About school, that's a decision only you can make. I did continue only because i needed the money i got from the Luxembourgian state as long as i continued to study. If i just decided to stop everything and tried to learn from home i would have been without money.
There really should be a program that helps people that need to learn from home while still getting some help from the state... But since the state can't verify you are actually learning ...it's not so easy.
Now if money isn't a concern for you, then just stop. It's not like the diploma will be of any use and i know all to well what a waste of time it can be. But if you do stop everything...then you also have to have the discipline to work everyday. And it can be hard at times.
But what ever you do, good luck and hang in there...and you'll get somewhere^^. I hope i get somewhere to haha.
Don't worry, i like to ramble and it's nice.
vince
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hi! sorry for the late response, i was on vacation the past few weeks
yes, i'v been checking the reactions of different age groups, and all where pretty positive so i'm no longer as worried about the theme as in the beginning.
the hardest part (and the thing everybody is interested in) is the story itself, storyline boosts or breaks the whole thing
the script is advancing really well, we're also starting to design the world,characters, ... everything is slowly starting to being brought to paper. currently working on a rough version of one of the promotional (1-page) character-presentation comics.
it really seems to interest people, i'm also getting a lot of help from friends and connections soooo.. i guess i could say it's going quite well with the project for the moment
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well, i nowadays i just make clear in advance that if they want me to paint something for them, they'll pay. the key is to tell them BEFORE you say you're interested in their proposal
and if they're really serious, they won't mind as long as you don't "overcharge" (what do you mean, art is PRICELESS)
no but seriously, i just tend ask to get payed a certain sum per hour. i only give a certain "discount" for really good friends or family... and it's not even that big of a discount, i mean... i want to live from this stuff
i do get that kind of remarks, "you don't do anything all day but sitting on that couch/at that table/... drawing/on you laptop/reading...blahblahblah"
just show them a thing you made (even if you worked way longer on it than a day 
they don't realise the work and time we have to put in to it because to them it seems easy... until they have to do it themselves.
it's true it's really hard not to get depressed when you see one or another artist's mind blowing work, but i try to see those artworks now as "the next level" i want to get near. it suddenly becomes a motivation for me in stead of something depressing.
but too bad for me that doesn't always work
it's true, drawing can perfectly be learned... all you need to know to make a believable drawing should be your basics like perspective, values, lightning,colors... but i do think that "talent/imagination" are the the things that make designs interesting in our industry..
best example; scenario
two students, both learned all the basics and can put them to use, are asked to draw a castle.
student a (not as imaginative as B) will probably just draw a square built castle with towers on the corners.
student B on the other hand will draw structures on rocks, towers with height/design/...etc, -differences
in my opinion imagination and/or talent will still make artwork/designs a little more interesting
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and yes about the school, i just finished this year, didn't learn a lot from it. from self-studying, contact with artist through internet and real life i did learn a lot though!
for the moment i'm looking what to do in the coming year,..not sure yet, working or studies... we'll see what's best
i'm thinking of going to a specialized school (too bad there aren't as much as there are traditional art schools 
one thing is sure, i'll keep on working on that novel-project!
when i'll have something to show/read i'll let you know
yes, the ramble is nice
cheers,
Maxime
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How dare you be on vacation haha. Well don't worry about that. I'm really busy at the moment to^^.
Yeah, the story is important, so if people react positively and you are sure they are sincere, that's a good think.
Speaking of story, i can't reveal the story of my own project right know, and that makes me a bit worried, because i don't know if i'm not getting any responses because of the story or the art.
But i'm working hard on the next pages right know, and really hope that this time it will work.
Yeah, i also just tell them, how much are you willing to pay and most of the time..they call me a greedy cunt and walk away haha. But if my work has so little value to them...might as well not work with them.
As for a hourly rate...honestly i feel i'm still to slow to do that. I would like to as at least 12 euros per hours...but a picture that would take somebody one day, can take me a week or two...so i don't know.
And iven if i'm getting payed very little i still can't get myself to not do the best work i possibly can. It's hard.
I find it easier when people just tell me what they are willing to pay. And if i feel thats not enough. I just tell them that if i work for this little money i would loose money because i could work on something else instead. That usualy works quiete well.
As for the stupid remarks and stuff. These people know exactly what i do and that they couldn't possibly do the same thing. BUt they just don't realize how hard it actually is to do. And telling them to try to do it, they just respond, well of course i can't do it, i'm not as tallented as you...grrrr.
As for depression...yeah, it's not really depressions but i feel really down sometimes. Not because of other people, but because the expectation i place on myself are really high. And when i realize mid painting that the painting can't possibly meet these expectation, i feel really really shitty...and just struggle to finish the painting. I force myself to finish all the paintings...and to finish them i have to try and find why it doesn't work....and usually i can't ask anybody why it doesn't work...i just have to find out myself. And as long as i don't find the answer...i just fell down..and sometimes it can last days..where i work and work...but i just dont find the solution to the painting.
That beeing said...when you do find the solution and the painting finally works...damn that feels great. and it's usually the moment you learn something and level up haha.
But maybe i'm just a tiny bit to perfectionist and just can't let myself be a bit mediocre once in a while...
I may be wrong here but it seems to me that for you talent is basically your life experience and all the knowledge you have on the side. I feel that it's true in someway. Like feng zhu said. Draw an ant...and the people who allready analyzed an ant will do a good job while the rest will do a shitty one. that beeing said...thinking outside of the box...is important to. I know a lot of very good painter, whose work just never feel interesting...because these painter can't draw without references at all. they rely on photos for everything...and it allways ends up stiff and lifeless when what they wanted to do was get more life by painting more realistically. SOmetimes imagination and creativity is important to.
Then there are people who are good, in everything...but everything they do is tasteless....i don't know why...it's just not pleasing to look at. The colors are kitch or the subject is cheesey..i don't know. And often these people are amazing drawftsman. They can paint miles better then i could...but the resulting picture just looks bad...
Well look at me critising people when i'm not even good haha. But having an opinion is important right? IF you don't know what you like in others painting...how would you know where you want to go in your own paintings...and how would you know if what you do is moving in the right directions...
Sometimes i wish art would be as easy as math....1 plus 1 equal 2 no mather what.... art isn't like that... 1 plus 1 equal 2 maybe...it depends...it could be a bit more 2 and a bit less 3...haha.
Well as for shool, i can't really help you with that, but iven if you do go to shool. The most important thing is to not waste your time i guess. I feel i wasted my time at moments...and regret it a bit know. But what can you do^^
Anyway, keep me updtated my ramble is done haha
vince.
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forgive me..
yes people actually start asking me about "progress" lately.. unfortunately i don't have enough time to work a lot on it lately.
really, it's incredible how little time is left at the end of the day.
well, i work in a team of three people for the moment, both other team members have access to the script (reading only, no writing) and can/and will correct me or tell me if my current idea s*cks really badly.
working in team also has the advantage we can all have our separate tasks on the project. at least for the designing of the world, the final novel will probably be drawn by one person or so.
I don't know if you're going solo n this project of yours?
i wish i could help, but i understand you can't show or tell me anything. i don't know if you happen to know anyone who can give you advice from time to time? it does help me a lot actually.
if people don't respect the artist, and just want the art for free... it's indeed better to let them go. you'd only loose precious time you could've spent on more important things. especially if they don't want to pay...others certainly will.
i prefer to ask the hourly rate. i work rather fast, since i tend to be a little impatient.
the only problem is, i have so much things to do or look after, it takes me a long time before i get to the assignment... usually, sketches included, i spread my comission on 2 or 3 days.
i know the feeling, having all these great ideas, knowing exactly what you want, and when you work on it, it turns out to be not what you expected it to be...frustrating
and being a perfectionist doesn't help at all in those moments.
well, i think talent is something you're born with or not. experiences and knowledge on the other hand grant you the ability to use that talent and shape the things you imagine.
things you can imagine because of (basic) knowledge.
talent is very helpful when doing something, but hard work can be an equally good teacher..even for drawing ( as you stated earlier)
building a visual library boosts your imagination enormously and allows you to create interesting pieces.
after the idea comes the skill, skill in the form of talent or hard work, doesn't matter in my opinion, as long as you're able to put your ideas on paper.
well, from what i'v seen from your work, you're certainly not bad at all
having an opinion is necessary, since it has to do with what you like (your taste)
and if you don't know what you like yourself, i think it's really hard to create art.
(look at me just repeating what you said.. hah
yes, it would make it easier, but also give us a loooooot more artists and a loooooot less jobs ;D
i did feel like the past year at school was a bit of a waste, except for the pressure, pressure to keep me working and not starting to do other things. (OR procrastinate)
keep up the good ramble, and work,
cheers,
Maxime
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forgive me too^^
yeah, time is really what i need the most too, haha. I don't know why...but it's when you really feel motivated to do something that you don't have the time to do it. and when you finally have the time to spent on it, the drive isn't there anymore.
Well, i'm working with an author, but i don't feel he has a real opinion about my art. He is the kind of person who is impressed by the fact that i can draw at all...so i can pretty much show him anything and he will be happy. So it's not easy...and since i'm pretty much an hermit who has no friends...well i really don't have an opinion that i can trust. My parents and my girlfriend are always impressed..so that doesn't help either. Then there would be 4chan ic, where i could get a critique...but most of the time the critiques on ic are either on something really unimportant like a small detail that's off...or it's an opinion...but since everyone is anonymous..it's not always really helpful. And most of the time....i already know what is wrong with my picture...what i really would like to know is how to fix it...but nobody ever knows haha.
I think i'll post the next few pages on deviant art when they are done...i don't know if it's a good idea...but i spent so much time on these and really want to at least show them... It's not like i have some kind of contract that tells me i can't so..
Yeah the question about talent is that's it's not really something we will ever know. The fact is that some people learn certain things faster than other for some reason...
Is it a certain form of intelligence or just harder work...i don't know. I just know that i will never run as fast as Hussein bolt. Iven with hard work. Just because he has a natural physic that i do not have.
Maybe in art there is something like that to, just not as obvious. Take for example patience...some people are more patient then others. I am rather nervous...and taking the time to make a calm and single strokes takes a lot of effort for me...i would rather do hundred strokes and hope for one to be the right one then erase all the others...Well that simple fact alone could change a lot of things. Take jaimes jones. All his art is based on careful and very intelligent strokes. I love what he is doing...but i'm not sure trying to emulate his way of painting is the right choice for me...but maybe i would learn faster if i could do that...
I really don't know if what I've just written is clear...but well. Maybe talent is just certain character traits, that help learn faster... Like being more precise, patient, having a tendency to mind details...etc..
Well school was helpful in that sense for me too. It made me work...It's not always easy to get to draw when there is so much other things that one could do. Maybe the best thing would be to just force yourself to draw everyday from 1 pm to 5pm...for example. You just have to tread it like it's your job. If you have a job, you can't just not go work...well try to treat drawing the same. Just draw from 1 to 5 pm..because it's your job..and iven if it's hard, or you are tired...if you had to go to work, you just would have to do it...so drawing shouldn't be any different.
Well i'm sorry for the late reply...you know how things work.. If you don't reply immediatly...you just put it off to tomorrow...but tomorrow never comes...haha.
chears
vince
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i notice my best drawings tend come out on moment's when i shouldn't be drawing,like when taking a break from a little side-job or so.. not that otherwise my drawings are bad, they just tend to get out easier when i'm supposed to do something else.
so i try to make the drawing or a quick sketch as soon as i can (i ALWAYS have a little notebook with me for that kind of moments) and if i lack the time, i try to finnish it later, which usually still works out pretty well
that sounds frustrating, in a sense that, there's never a challenge,... please correct me if my opinion is wrong
and yeah, relatives are always easily impressed. i've got the same problem, since all the people i know are just the same/or they don't know enough.. i just try to meet new people who actually do know something about the subject and hope they're honest enough to also be able to give you a bad critic when needed.
well, at the moment i'm trying to make an official project out of the story i'm writing, so anytime soon i'll also be able to show a few little things
and when it's visible, you should tell me what you think about it... i might always need someone to help me out with al the drawing.
well you always can, i suppose you'll know it fast enough if people like it or not that way.and if the person who you work with doesn't tell you you can't... well obviously you're allowed to do what you want
yes, i agree talent is something you have or not, you're born with it. but hard work can get you just as far as a talented person ( well in our case, i'm not too sure if it's going to make you as fast as Bolt )
i suppose talent the way you describe it "Maybe talent is just certain character traits, that help learn faster... Like being more precise, patient, having a tendency to mind details...etc.." has a lot of similarities with your overal personality .
and yet again, time is the problem in this case. i'd love to spend every other day with drawing, writing... but at the moment i need some money, and my paintings don't pay me enough to be financially independent.. so my days go to another job i do for the moment. in the evening ( after a ten hour day) i'm pretty exhausted.. and i'm not that much in the mood for drawing all the time, but when i start i immediately love doing it and keep going for hours...aaaand then i notice it's 3 'o clock and i have 3 more hours to sleep
don't worry, about late replies or not, we're both busy people it seems
Maxime
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Hey, how are you doing,
I just realized how long it has been since you posted your reply...and i'm really sorry about replying only now...iven though you said it's ok because we are busy haha.
Anyways, i've been busy, i have to make a cover for a magazine called forum based in luxembourg which is exiting and also make some process painting for a musical theatre piece. I really don't want to screw this jobs up...so i have been concentrating really hard on these one. I hope i'll get to post the results once i'm done. The magazine cover won't be a problem but the process videos i don't know yet...
Anyways i don't know where you are with your own projects, but i promise that i'll be as sincere as i can if you show me. But don't be mad if i tell you it's shit haha. just kidding.
As for having to do a job, i can only relate to well. I find it almost impossible to draw after having to work all day. Lucky for me, i don't have this problem anymore. I've got a girlfriend whose working and is supporting me. Without her i may have had to make different choices. Now i can concentrate on drawing all day, without worrying about money, which has helped me a lot. Obviously i still have to make a living, but if i don't, i know that we will still survive.
But well, anyways i hope everything still is fine for you and sorry for the late and small reply, but i'm actually busy with paying jobs for once, and it feels great haha. I just hope i don't screw this up...
vince
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guess i'll have to fine you for being late then... no really, don't worry about it. As you said, we're both busy
that sounds like good work to me, curious to maybe one day see some of it!
can i ask what musical theatre piece it is you're working for?
at the moment still designing, painting a lot, hopefully we'l be able to show some of it soon.
the only problem is that next year i'll be a year abroad (at least), so i'm not sure about when to make it public..now (and risk everyone forgets about it until i'll have time to work on it again) or wait until i'm back ....
anyhow, i'll appreciate your opinion, even if you tell me it's horsecrap...if i get to show any of it
at the moment you're the lucky one i suppose, i'm trying to combine a job (although it has flexible hours/day), getting a drivers permit (never needed one before), portfolio-building, and working on my project ( you know, the horsecrap thingy... ;D)...
even though it's hard work, i'm kinda liking it. I never thought I'd say this but getting up really early, and working till the evening (whatever the work/subject might be) doesn't feel that bad at all, just a little tiring.
oh well, enough rambling for one day,
good luck with the jobs!
Maxime
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Well for the musical theater piece, It's about the Pied Piper of Hamelin. It's not really a big event. I think it will be mostly presented to children. But i get money for it, and it's different than what i usually do. But since it's still vague... i don't know exactly what i will be able to show. But for the work itself, it actually just doing speed paintings from certain key moment of the story, Which will then be played during the piece in the backround while dancer dance in front of it...and such... And for the magazine cover. I really have a hard time with it... what i have right know isn't bad...but it just isn't what i'd like it to be...and i have no idea how to get it to look like i want haha.
where are you going? if you don't mind to tell me. But as for waiting to make it public. I guess it's the better option. It's better to have it on standby than having people forget about it. And also you don't know how much you may evolve in one year. Maybe you'll find things that you would like to change...and if it's already public you may not have the options to do so.
As for luck, i hope it sticks around haha. But good luck man, you'll get your chances too as long as you stick with it, it's bound to happen.
Vince.
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Oh that's a really fun story, a lot of cool things you could paint with that theme! and yeah, as long as it pays and you enjoy it, doesn't matter who the public is right?
Well for the cover, i don't know what trouble you are experiencing but i'm sure you'll find a solution.
Good luck with them!
I might go to singapore for about a year, although there's still a lot of preparation to do before i can actually go
Meanwhile i have discussed it with the people i'm working with we'll keep it on hold/keep working on the project until i return, and if possible, we'll make it public then
Thanks for the advice,
cheers!
Maxime
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when you say singapour....do you mean feng zhu? just curious....
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ehmmmm maybe?
trying to get there at least
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well if you do, you better tell me everything about it haha. good luck with that.
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haha, i will!
i'm trying but as you probably know, it's not the most regular school to sign up for
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yeah i hear his classes tends to fill up fast. And the price is steep to. But hey. If it really bring the results that he promises. then maybe it's worth it. Well good luck and if you're just going to singapour. then good luck with the girls...they seem quite nice too.
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it appears they do. so that's what i'm focusing on right now
well i've informed myself pretty thoroughly and found almost only positive results/answers.. the few negative ones usually came from drop-outs or people who didn't want to believe it...I personally think it looks pretty promising.
about the girls i don't think i'll let my self go...wouldn't please the girlfriend too much i think
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If you have a girlfriend than yes, you should probably not do that haha. Especially if you are going there to improve...no time for flirting around anyways.
That being said, i also heard about the horror story's, that apparently the talented people get the attention and the others can drop out for all they care. But since these story always come from people who decided to drop out....I don't know what's true or not. But i hope that for the price that you would spent on his school that you get something out of it.
Feng says that the high price is there to motivate you to take this seriously. But i'm afraid that depending on your skill level, that something that would take someone a day to complete could take a less advanced student, iven if he is the most dedicated person on earth, a week. Just because there are things that takes time and trial and error to learn. Hard work can get you far...but certain things take time to learn and if you don't take the time do learn them seriously...it will slow you down later.
But really, if you get there... tell me how you are doing. It would really be nice to know what's true or not. And i hope that it's positive.
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you're right about that, there will surely be no time for that at all
i figured out as much, bad stories only came from dropouts... still, it's a bit scary, especially when you pay so much to go there. i think if you push yourself (or even just do all the assignments) you'll learn a lot of new things, just by practicing an putting in the hours.
absolutely,the price motivates, but more in a way that says "you really CAN'T screw this up!"...not sure if that's positive or negative motivating.
i'm trying to prepare as well as possible, drawing/painting like a madman for my own project etc...hoping i'll be just that little bit better before i head over there
oh man, i'll write a book on that experience
really curious
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I hope i'll get to read that book, and that when you'll get there you'll stay in contact with me to tell me how things are going for you. I was wondering when you'll go if you already know that is?.
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well, if i have any time left after all the working i'm sure i would
currently i'm working on a portfolio, and if all goes well i think i'll apply for the intake in september. that should give me enough time to arrange everything.
now i'm just hoping i'll get in
so how are your projects going by the way?
cheers!
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Well for know i'm waiting that the guy who i'm working with sends me the written script so that i can send the new pages to some publisher. And i hope that this time someone is interested. As for freelance, i don't have much work right know...so i really hope that something comes along quickly.
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well i hope that project will take off soon, sounds like you've been putting some work in it
we've probably talked about this earlier but, would you prefer staying freelance or in-house? i suppose if you're satisfied with your current portfolio, you could send it to possible clients/companies...might always hand you some work
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For the publisher, i tried the usual french ones. Gleant, dargaud , casterman and all the other favorite. But right know i'm waiting for the writer to do a description of the whole story that the publisher could read, so that they know exactly where we want to go.
I might get some job soon for ten illustration in black and white for a book. I don't know how well this is going since it's a friend who talked about it. But i'll see.
As for my portfolio, i'm actually not that happy with it. Since i do have some time for myself right know. i'm trying to improve where i know my shortcomings are. And if i can get a solid portfolio out of it, that would be perfect.
I don't think i would be good in an in house job. I'm really way to selfish to actually do work i don't like doing haha. I really want to work for myself...but if that's not possible, i want to at least be the one who chooses which project to take on. Maybe that's not realistic....but that's ok. If i could do book covers, that would be nice. But i thing my biggest problem is to get a nice rendering down. I need to get the little push that makes my pictures more finished...but i don't really know right know how to do that.
I also think that i'm more and more interested in actual illustration rather then concept art. I feel that with illsutration you can put more of yourself in it. And that's where i think i will focus my efforts for now.
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whoa, i completely forgot to check my deviant-messages.. sorry for answering so late
so how's the publisher hunt going? any luck with any of the previously named ones? you're really making me curious about that story you're working on, any chance you could tell me anything about it?
(i totally understand if you'd rather not
and the other job you mentioned, the one in black and white?
"I also think that i'm more and more interested in actual illustration rather then concept art. I feel that with illsutration you can put more of yourself in it. And that's where i think i will focus my efforts for now."
yes, that's what i thought lately when i saw some of your work pop up in my fb-feed, it has more of an illustration feel, and you've definitely mproved a lot since when i started to follow your work.
do you have a portfolio site or something like that?
cheers mate!
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Don't worry about thinks like that.
Well as allways...the hunt isn't going anywhere. I will try some smaller publisher. But i just don't really know which one yet.
About the story. Well don't judge my terrible sense of suspense and explanation since i'm not the writter haha.
It's about a girl who killed herself in a car accident after having gotten in a fight with her step dead. TO her dismay she realizes that there is an afterlife. The second hero is his halfangel...he has the boring task to bring her to the last judgement where she will be judged for suicide. There is also a third hero called Z who helps the halfangel in his task but he doesn't talk so we don't know much about him yet. Once she comes to st pierre for the judgement she won't accept her sentence and for reason nowbody understands yet Z helps her to run away. THe halfangel is going to try to bring them back but will eventually get to know her and try to help her. Now that shes dead she will slowly get to kow things she didn't know about before her death. And all the characte will slowly reveal themself over the story...while other angels try to bring them back.
I'm not sure if i'm selling the story...but that's about it. It's kind of a road movie. But since publisher like to categorize things..we don't really know where to aim for the best results.
I had a da portfolio but the paintings are basically the same as here. But honestly i don't know which painting to put up because i don't think any of my paintings are good enough yet....But the problem is also that they probably never will be good enough haha. so that's that.
As for Fdz, /ic/ really likes to talk about it in the worst manner, and there might be some things that are true. But i recently listen to a podcast from a guy who had no drawing backround what so ever, went ther at 28 and got hired by lucas art shortly after at 30 i guess.
the link to the podcast if you're interested: soundcloud.com/the-collective-…
and his portfolio: hendrix-design.com/
But the guy admitts that he pretty much died this whole year so there is that haha.
Good luck^^
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