kabutali In reply to Trace007 [2013-05-01 23:24:39 +0000 UTC]

thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!

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Trace007 In reply to kabutali [2013-05-02 01:45:00 +0000 UTC]

Also, the Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook is a great resource. It's recommended reading by a lot of freelancers. It goes over writing up contracts and everything.

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Trace007 In reply to kabutali [2013-05-02 01:39:29 +0000 UTC]

No prob. If I find more cool stuff I'll let you know.

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kabutali In reply to Trace007 [2012-11-01 13:23:16 +0000 UTC]

lol its an M and a B, my initials are MB.

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kabutali In reply to Trace007 [2012-09-17 04:41:55 +0000 UTC]

hrm~ I shall give it a try!

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kabutali In reply to L-Y-N-S [2012-03-06 11:07:18 +0000 UTC]

No problem! I'd love to help! :3 (no creepiness inferred) Well I started because the class was being offered at my high school, and then my college too. obviously you can't take the that class, but the work material I can still suggest if you want to learn on your own. Since I worked with native and non-native speakers for teachers, I have a some insight towards books/material that may help you a lot more than those off the shelf "learn chinese" books.

Forewarning though, Chinese was fun to learn but its not for everybody. Since you have to learn the sound language and then the pictorial language at the same time, which are really different although they correlate, while learning the translation from your language.(optionally you can learn to speak but not read chinese) Its hard at first. But really once you get the basic in how to learn it, its all translation and memorization after that. Like reading books after you learn the alphabet. You need the passion of enjoying the language AND the culture. Since culture effected how most of the words came to be and it is, I find, very intriguing anyway. But I won't sugar coat it, the standard of learning chinese(this is known by everyone going for it) is a MINIMUM of 8 years. It takes 8 years to learn to speak fluent like chinese, to hold a conversation. More study afterwards is expected of most too. But like spanish classes that go to 3 or 4, chinese needs to go to 8. I don't remember exactly how many characters is the norm to know, but its around 5,000-7,000 I think? About that to read books, newspaper and have a conversation. Anyway, if your up to it, heres a list of some stuff to begin with a great start. And I'm pretty sure collectively, its still less than rosetta stone

Also I started in traditional and switched early to simplified characters so ALL of the work I list is learning in simplified(which is being made the norm now). Its learning to speak and read at the same time. And all the links are to the books on amazon, for the learning books-starting at the beginning level ones. Then a description of each is below the list.
* AHEM*:


#1. Integrated Chinese (they have traditional and simplified versions, I switched here, but the one listed below is simplified)
here: [link]

#2. New Practical Chinese Reader (I used 1st edition, but 2nd addition was released in 2010, listed below.)
here: [link]

#3. [link] (learning/help with characters)

#4. [link] (peer chatting/practice)

#5. Collins Chinese Concise Dictionary (my favorite dictionary)
Here: [link]

#6. Common Knowledge about Chinese _______ (insert Culture, History or Geography; there are 3 books)
This is more for fun, but its kind of a necessary item if you want to go abroad or just learn in general. the one listed is the newer 2007 edition, revised(of culture). I used 2004.
here: [link]


1. Integrated Chinese: First book is made for americans learning chinese. I goes a little bit fast after you start learning some words and sentence basics but it explains a lot of meanings and sounds, that are generally lost in translation, and they explain it in a way you the non-speaker can understand. It also retains pinyin with the characters throughout most of the book's dialogues.(the english translation will start to not be shown after the first 6-15 chapters, somewhere in there.) It goes slower in the beginning for learning characters and radicals, much appreciated for an absolute beginner(unlike a lot of books). Its also based with a Bejing dialect. Which can be considered standard, but a lot of it is considered off, by natives who don't speak in Bejing dialect. To the chinese; It can be interpreted (from us for example) like a boston accent with the word car (sounding like cah) but its not too heavy like a southern texan or louisiana accent. Just a little off. Though this accent was less apparent in level 2, so this might have been revised out.

2. New Practical Chinese Reader: This second book, was actually made by the chinese government(its new, but was worked/studied on for years, for perfected learning process) for students and relatively native non-speakers overseas. What you learn is standard mandarin with a light Bejing accent.(almost non existent and displayed as optional) It will give you the most correct way to say things, in china, and other variations of the same sentence and words. It also has a lot of generally overlooked words and phrases in it too that are a cultural know. I personally think the word grouping and chapter order to which you learn them is great. But you lose the translation into english and pinyin very quickly in dialogues, since they believe you are learning it and retaining everything.

Both books are part of a series 2-3 books long. And both have a workbook, and audio accompaniment. also amazingly the dialogue story characters are very similar, so both books are like a continuation of each other.

3. Yellowbridge: Third, is a site by a culture bridging society. They developed a great character dictionary system, since looking words up in a chinese dictionary is quite the process. This is correctly translated in everyway(unlike the googled sites). It also shows the stroke order and has a audio clip of how to pronounce it(which is loud and sudden with no loading and scares me sometimes ), as well the various definitions, word association and best of all- etymology! It tells you how the word is broken down in chinese. Which radical gives the meaning, which the sound, which is purely cultural. Then there's other stuff like memory games, phrase catalogue and a flashcard system.

4. Busuu: Fourthly, a great FREE language site for learning languages has just started up they're chinese section very recently. I had used it before the exercises were installed so I don't know if they are mandarin or cantonese, or if the learning exercises are even correct but they most likely are. Anyway the point to this whole site is chatting with foreigners, you chatting with someone trying to learn english, or you chatting in chinese with a native. It uses realtime IM and/or facechat system, as well it has a kind of cheaty bar on the right that allows you to search for words or phrases you want to say, if you don't know it on the spot. This site makes up for the lack of classroom learning with peers, since busuu is full of young people wanting to learn from others they're age and make friends abroad, likewise older experienced speakers wanting to teach or learn more.

5. Collins Concise Chinese Dictionary: Big font=less squinting. it also has a larger radical index which is imperative for looking up things and more words. I also used oxford, but I liked this one better. I believe this one also shows the traditional version of the characters too, allowing you to look up traditional.(but my memory might be wrong on that) Note: You do not need this item. Yellowbridge works fine as a dictionary, and having a hand dictionary is mainly for extraneous defining to learn and practicing if you want, by translating actual chinese books. If you do this, start with children's books. It seems embarrassing but these will be hard, it may surprise you. By level 3/4 you can try to translate chinese shonen manga, but its more looking up in a dictionary than actual reading. Like I said, 8 yrs to speak normal. This workout is proof.

6. Common Knowledge of Chinese History/Culture/Geography: These books are literally, in the title, for learning the common knowledge of china. Example, for the us, knowing where texas is and that the stereotype cowboy originated there. I really enjoyed the culture book, but those three together are the basics and correlate with each other. You really need to read all three, to be in the know. You can't read two and not read geography because you think its boring. Then for example, you wouldn't know where the white house is in america, or that the middle of usa is flat lands while east is more forests with a line of mountains. Chinese culture is always taking about mountains, how can you know which mountain they're referring? Is it a notorious jungle mountain or a volcanic one known for its hot springs? If some chinese guy knows it, you should too.


Anyway, I know this is a a lot at once, but it should be extremely helpful if you really want to pursue mandarin. There are plenty of kids who learn on they're own and then take the HSK, The Chinese Proficiency Test and get certified. Heck, you can even watch youtube videos of the oral exam. Heres the site if you want investigate what the test is and examples of what you need to be able to do: [link]

Go for it, I believe in you. <( 'w')9

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L-Y-N-S In reply to kabutali [2012-03-14 04:09:47 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much!

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kabutali In reply to L-Y-N-S [2012-03-16 18:50:08 +0000 UTC]

as long as it helped.

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L-Y-N-S In reply to kabutali [2012-03-16 23:44:07 +0000 UTC]

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kabutali In reply to Eloarei [2011-09-12 23:14:10 +0000 UTC]

thanks! >.> There really where awesomer pieces tho. ._. also those +12 twelve was really nice of you. Took me by surprize! I was like "woah.. where did these..."

I can ask rem real quick if it can be changed to HAVE 2nd and 3rd places ^^ The prizes, especially the art ones, need to be spread around.

I promise to make your future art viewings wicked good, no matter what! :3 Please enjoy!

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Eloarei In reply to kabutali [2011-09-13 05:20:08 +0000 UTC]

A 2nd and 3rd place might be a good idea. I was thinking something like if there are 1-3 people, just ONE place. If there are 4-6 entries, TWO places. And If there are 7 or more entries, make THREE places, if there are enough prizes to go around. But I suppose it's up to REM in the end. ^^ *shrugs* It's just an idea anyway.

Ooh, that's quite the promise! I'm really looking forward to it~

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kabutali In reply to Eloarei [2011-09-13 23:59:34 +0000 UTC]

I talked to rem. Instead of trying to tell the details heres part of the convo and how it went down.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"kabutali:
eloarei made a strong point to me today, wouldn't we expose/appreciate other peoples art too if we have 2nd and 3rd places? In the end its up to you guys to do whatever.

Let me know what you think/want to do.

If it takes, I'll do a OC art for 2nd and a chibi for 3rd. Both colored. ^-^

~RemCycleDN 1 day ago
The idea has crossed my mind, but I don't have any sort of prizes to offer 2nd and 3rd place people. I mean, every once in a while, someone will donate, but it's not for sure. With one winner, I know that person gets to at LEAST choose the next topic, if nothing else.

If there was a way to remedy that situation, I'd consider it again more seriously ^-^"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Point taken. I really can't think of anything, but if you can go suggest it. Obviously everyone who donates art for prizes, we can't ask them to make some for 2 other people as well. :/

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Eloarei In reply to kabutali [2011-09-14 11:04:39 +0000 UTC]

Oh, thanks for letting me know.
Ok, hm, when I decide about my own donations for the next contest, I'll mention it to Rem. I think it should be on a case-by-case (or contest-by-contest, rather) basis, depending on how many donations they get. But like I said, I'll go over it with her sometime. Thanks for trying. ^__^

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kabutali In reply to jyoshi917 [2011-01-13 08:02:42 +0000 UTC]

no problem. you do some really classy stuff.

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