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89ravenclaw In reply to cocoapuffs12345 [2016-02-25 19:51:07 +0000 UTC]

thank you!

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89ravenclaw In reply to astraia---aetpaia [2015-12-28 21:18:41 +0000 UTC]

thank you!

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89ravenclaw In reply to Chaosfive-55 [2015-09-13 04:17:56 +0000 UTC]

thanks!

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Chaosfive-55 In reply to 89ravenclaw [2015-09-13 14:46:48 +0000 UTC]

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89ravenclaw In reply to RebellingLemming [2015-08-29 14:01:10 +0000 UTC]

thanks!

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89ravenclaw In reply to QuantumPhysica [2015-08-28 21:57:39 +0000 UTC]

yeah I'm trying really hard lately to think about what skin colors my Silmarillion interpretation should be lately (my elven family tree way too white, and I've already written up notes on how to fix the problem while sitll keeping everyone related). That Valar can take on any form they wish, so there's no excuse for them to be a sea of white. Since Nienna is suppose to be a sibling to Irmo and Mandos, I'll probably make them Indian as well.

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QuantumPhysica In reply to 89ravenclaw [2015-08-29 01:02:50 +0000 UTC]

I have once seen a gorgeous version of POC!Irmo that looked fairly Indian (for all I know of that), and even though I used to headcanon him as pale and white-haired, that interpretation always stuck with me because it was so beautiful. Same with your Nienna. 
I'm always happy when I see people include POCs in the Silmarillion fandom. It's sort of an automatism to picture all the characters as white, but I think the different elven tribes could very well have different skin colors. I mean, I could be wrong, but is it ever really outright said that they're all white? 

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89ravenclaw In reply to QuantumPhysica [2015-08-29 14:11:04 +0000 UTC]

Where any of these the Irmo you are thinking of? musingsfrombree.tumblr.com/tag…

I've actually gone through the most of the text and pulled out all passages on skin color, and there are a few that explicitly state some groups as having fair skin and others with more mixed and swarthy skin. I then figured out what physical appearances for characters were canon, what implied canon must be (aka what characters related to these more visually cemented characters must look like, and then determined which groups and individuals were undefined or had wiggle room.

I actually made a big long post about this over on Mythgrad's forums for The Silmarillion project, where I included a condensed version of my notes on the subject: www.mythgard.org/forum/index.p…

But to quote some of it here, after listing all the canon physical descriptions, I included some of my working headcanon on how to include more POC:

"The Vanyar and the House of Hador are as white as they come (they even have the whole blonde/blue-eyed thing going on). Since the Hadorians are generally larger burly/guys, they're probably more Norwegian-esque, while the the Vanayar are lighter sort of Swiss variety (Switzerland mountains and Idril living in Gondolin are probably influencing me there)

I'd have Melian take on an East Asain ethnicity when she took on a more mortal form, so Luthien would at least be half that. I'd probably make the Teleri more eastern Mediterranean (I like the idea of them associated with an enthic group associated with a coastal region), so darker skin, but with white/silver hair, so that would be Thingol, and thus Luthien's other half. Though the Teleri could all just be East Asian instead (still with white/silver hair) but with more Mediterranean influences in armor and things to help account for coastal vs inland living.

And then I'd have Beren also of that eastern Mediterranean/middle-eastern variety (though the Beorlings are mixed group so they could also have some more Russian/Eastern Europe vibes mixed in there too), so the line through Beren and Luthien would stay fairly colored. In the end, the Numenorians and Gondorians should have been much more brown than they were in Jackson's films.

For the easterlings, I'd make the people of Bor very Middle-Eastern, even Pakistani, but I am more torn when it comes to the house of Ulfang since they're the bad easterlings. I'd still have to make Ulfang's people feel like they're from the east, so that means more eastern than what I'm using for the Teleri and Beorlings, so maybe pull from the Nomanic tribes of Eurasia who did make it as far as eastern Europe. That could be more mongalian/east Asain/Genghis Khan types, or more Iranian/Persian empire.

I don't have any strong thoughts of the Haladrin or the Dwarves (besides thinking both groups are fairly inter-racial), so I'm super open for suggestions on those fronts.

In terms of the Valar my mind changes all the time, but here's what I'm thinking today:

• Manwe would be Native American since several tribes have cultural connections with eagles and the side profile is very eagle-esque to begin with.
• Varda would be Lucy Liu; the end (I swear this is the most agreed upon fan casting; everyone always fan casts her as Varda).
• Yavanna would be African since it suits the whole mother earth vibe quite nicely
• Aule I picture as Egyptian/Greek, probably because of some lose mental connection to Hephaestus and also the darker colors associated with a forge.
• Ulmo is most East Asian/Korean to me, but maybe with with some Persian elements. I know what he looks like to me, but I'm having trouble pinpoint which ethnic group he belongs to.
• Tulkas is probably Samoan or Turkish or something,;mainly thinking of wrestlers body types.
• Nienna, Irmo, and Mandos would all probably have to be the same to visually reinforce the connection between them. I blame Idris Elba's Heimdall for this but probably African with different colored eyes for each, with those colors representing their various elements (Nienna blue or something, Irmo gold?, idk)
• Melkor is probably just a white Northerner with darker eye/hair coloring, so Russian I guess?
• And while he's not a Valar, Sauron is just a skinny red-headed Viking
• All unmentioned Valar, I simply don't have any strong thoughts on as of yet."

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QuantumPhysica In reply to 89ravenclaw [2015-08-30 19:55:37 +0000 UTC]

Yep, it was the very first one! (so beautiful… ) 

I love your extensive headcanon on this! Especially that you actually went through the text to find references to race and overall looks. So often it is forgotten that not even Tolkien specified all characters as white (I knew there were grey areas, but by example I didn't know that he specified the people of Beor being mixed-raceish with some of them having swarthy skin), and that not all "easterling" tribes were evil. 

I unconsciously always headcanoned the Teleri as brown-skinned and pale-haired; I never really gave it much thought, but your explanation (coastal region etc.) makes so much sense. 

Also, thank you for pointing me towards the Silmarillion Film Project! I had no idea this was a thing, and it is awesome. 

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89ravenclaw In reply to QuantumPhysica [2015-09-01 19:49:05 +0000 UTC]

The Mythgard gang is a fun group; the Silmarillion Project is only the tip of the iceburg. The podcast episodes for that though are always held live and released later, so you could come hang out during one of them if you want to interact with the hosts and chat people.

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