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BeckyKidus — The existence of dragons, scientifically seen
#asiandragon #chinesedragon #dragon #dragons #explanation #facts #fantasy #interesting #rambling #sciencefiction #sciencefictionfantasy #text #westerndragon #written #wyvern #westerndragons #beckykidus
Published: 2018-05-21 14:47:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 2748; Favourites: 85; Downloads: 0
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Description Introduction
Those of you who follow me know that I'm interested in animals, zoology, the ecosystem, nature in general, and fable animals. They will also know I have an on-and-off project about unicorns, and how they would look and act in real life. However, while unicorns are the most interesting - and the species of fable animals I draw the most - dragons are certainly fascinating as well.

So here - a long article discussing if dragons could exist, and the abilities they would have if they existed, all explained. No magic involved - I'm here to try to figure out if these animals could really exist in our world.


The number of limbs - would the typical western dragon be possible?
The first thing which sets dragon apart from other mammals are the six limbs. Normal animals have four, - either four feet, wings and feet, or hands and feet -, and the dragon would therefore be an entirely different genus. Due to the build of the rib cage of typical animals and dinosaurs, it would most likely not be possible for them to have front feet and wings like we like to picture them. The muscles which are used to operate the wings and the ones used to operate the front legs would have to be in the same place - which is impossible. The dragons would therefore either have the wings in the middle of the body - something which would make them very front-heavy, and not be practical...

...or they would look like wyverns or Chinese Dragons.

The traditional, six-limbed western dragon would therefore not exist. Wyverns and Chinese dragons, on the other hand, would have functioning anatomy. We continue with these.


The wyvern

General

I think most of the readers here will know what a wyvern is - but for those who don't know it, here's a very short explanation: Wyverns look like dragons, but have no front feet. They therefore have only four limbs - the wings and the back feet. They are normally pictured as smaller than normal dragons, and with a poison barb on their tail. Wyverns are also usually though to be less intelligent than a normal dragon.

Hotblooded or coldblooded?

Reptiles are coldblooded. Dragons and wyverns are usually thought of as a type of reptile, with the scales, head, horns etc. It would therefore be natural if they also were coldblooded. However, reptiles can hardly move when it's cold. They need to warm themselves in the sun before they are able to move and hunt properly, and a wyvern which is too stiff to move its wings properly most likely won't survive that long.

If wyverns should be able to fly properly in colder regions, they would have to be hotblooded. This can lead to the theory that they have feathers... Alright, I get it - birds are actually dragons. Problem solved!
However, a far more likely solution is that they live in areas which are warm all year round, like the rainforest. This means that there is a tiny hope they actually exist, we just haven’t discovered them yet.

Anatomy

The wyverns would be able to fly. The front limbs would have evolved to become wings, most likely similar to a bats'. The placement of the muscles needed for flight could look similar to a bats’ as well, or more like a birds’. This is, of course, uncertain - both would be possible.

The length of the neck, the tail and the feet would, however, look more similar to a birds’, which could make it more likely that the musculature looks more similar to a bird as well.
The wyverns would most likely not be very large. They would live in the forest, and being large would not be a huge advantage here. The wingspan might be up to four meters, but most likely smaller. There would most likely be several different species with different sizes. Just imagine those mini-wyverns which are like ten centimetres small already

The ability to breath fire

To the fire. There are theories that the dragons could produce certain chemicals which react with oxygen, causing fire. There are no living animals, apart from the bombardier beetle, which are able to make something similar to fire (the beetle used a mixture of hot gasses, something that still is far away from actual flames).

But then, when we go away from the typical "dragon" and move to the "wyvern" - wyverns aren't known for spitting fire. They might have a poison barb on their tale, similar to a scorpions', but they cannot breathe fire. The ability to do so might also not be very useful:

Fire could be used in several different ways.
- To attack
- Defence
- To impress others
- To grill meat

It would not be a useful weapon to attack prey with, as it doesn't kill instantly, and the prey will most likely flee with singed fur/feathers. Venom would work better.

It would be a useful defence weapon. However, poison might work here as well (we are pretty careful towards venomous snakes!), and it might take time to produce the chemicals which make fire-breathing possible. Also, the wyverns fly. Therefore:
- with ground predators they would either be killed instantly, or be able to escape by flying.
- aerial predators usually attack from above (like falcons, hawks, eagles, etc.) and kill almost instantly. There would be no real way of defending oneself from these attacks apart from being careful and flee. And when you flee, fire would be an unnecessary ability to have.

To impress others from the same species. "Look, I have more fancy flames than you! I win all the females!" I doubt it - considered it is far too dangerous to do this. They might hurt themselves, or others, and that is something animals avoid when possible. They could also risk to burn down the area they live in - something which isn't fortunate for anyone.

To grill meat. Like other reptiles, and like birds, I think wyverns would be perfectly capable to eat raw meat.

I therefore count it as unlikely that they do have this ability. Being able to breath fire would also mean that they need extra armour in their mouth, something which would be difficult.

Summary

The wyverns would live in warm areas, be able to fly but not to breathe fire, and could exist in real life. And who knows – maybe they do exist, but we haven’t found them yet.


Chinese – or rather, Asian - dragons

General

The Asian dragons look radically different from Western dragons. The most common description is that they have “the scales like a koi, a head like a camel, eyes like a daemon, ears like a cow/bull, horns like those of a stag, claws like an eagles’, a neck like a snakes’, feet like a tigers’ and teeth like a wolf.” Asian dragons are described to be intelligent.

Anatomy

These dragons have four feet and no wings. Legends claim they are able to fly – but without magic, I see no possibility for this to happen. In this article I therefore conclude they do not have this ability.

They would therefore look rather like a variety of lizard. This means they will be coldblooded – they have no need to be able to move very swiftly, as they do not need to fly. The muscle and bone structure would be very similar to that of a lizard as well. They would most likely be larger than any known lizards, including the Komodo dragon. With such size, they could have large brains, explaining their intelligence.

They do most likely not exist, since China, Korea and Japan – where these beasts are claimed to live – are crowded with people now, and no-one has reported a creature like this. However, they might have existed in the past. After all, if ten-meter-long snakes existed, huge lizards could probably have existed as well.

Legends do not tell us that these creatures could breathe fire, and it is not likely that they can.

Summary

The Asian dragons would look quite similar to lizards. They would not be able to fly or breathe fire, and they do not exist – at least not now.


Conclusion
In short – the typical Western dragon cannot, and does not, exist. If six-limbed creatures with wings and four feet exist, they would most likely not look like these either.

Wyverns can exist, but it is unlikely. These would be cold-blooded creatures living in areas which are warm all year round, and might act like birds or bats. There could be many different species, ranging from carnivores to herbivores.

Asian dragons would be anatomically possible, apart from their ability to fly, but it would be known if they existed. They might theoretically have existed before.


Author’s note
Alright – I hope this was an interesting read for all of you, and I hope at least some of you like it. However, some things to bear in mind: I am in no way educated within zoology, biology or such. I am interested in it, and I know a lot about it, but I am in no way an expert. Also, this text is written over some three hours, and I have just used logic and what I knew from before (and one source, link below). This all means there might be mistakes and errors here – do not take this very seriously. I wrote this down for fun.


Also – you can share this text, but do credit me as BeckyKidus on DeviantArt.



Source:
dragons.wikia.com/wiki/Dragons…

Related content
Comments: 83

SerenityFeueropal [2018-05-27 07:57:14 +0000 UTC]

Overall

Vision

Originality

Technique

Impact


Don't be alarmed by the long section of improvement. It's only wordy, not unnecessarily critical.

What I liked: The analytical method you used to dissect the possibility of the existence of dragons was very well executed. I like how you went over each aspect of the dragons to make sure it could exist in the real world.

What could improve: You mentioned that the traditional Western dragon would be an entirely different genus. I would probably have picked something higher up on the nomenclature scale, perhaps saying they're from a different Order or perhaps even Class (in this case different from Reptilia) or even a different Phylum (in this case different from Vertebrates) if you're feeling especially bold. A genus is a group of animals that are remarkably similar in DNA and may even be able to mate, but aren't directly related. Example: Humans and Neanderthals are of the same Genus and have even reproduced successfully, but humans and pangolins are only of the same Class (Mammalia). Additionally, humans and ring-tailed lemurs are of the same Order (primates).

Overall, this was a wonderful read, heavily appealing to my analytical side and thoroughly entertaining it. A similar writing from myself probably would've had a very similar outcome. I mean, just look at those 5 star ratings over there!

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Silverianx [2020-04-17 21:28:44 +0000 UTC]

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BeckyKidus In reply to Silverianx [2020-04-17 23:07:00 +0000 UTC]

Glad to hear you liked it!

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Silverianx In reply to BeckyKidus [2020-04-17 23:40:36 +0000 UTC]

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Sellerim [2020-02-21 22:41:47 +0000 UTC]

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BeckyKidus In reply to Sellerim [2020-02-22 14:54:28 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

Word of warning: I don't write much, and what I write is rarely posted here, at least not as separate artworks. You'll find more of it in artwork descriptions, though, especially when it comes to fantasy/mythological creatures.

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Sellerim In reply to BeckyKidus [2020-02-22 17:15:25 +0000 UTC]

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VilmaMonster [2020-02-19 18:18:27 +0000 UTC]

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BeckyKidus In reply to VilmaMonster [2020-02-20 09:58:30 +0000 UTC]

Who says dragons can't be small?

(Or maybe that's just me, with my mini-griffins. I think tiny dragons would be fun.)

And he is very cute!


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elohveeE419 [2020-01-18 00:56:39 +0000 UTC]

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BeckyKidus In reply to elohveeE419 [2020-01-18 10:41:13 +0000 UTC]

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Nova-Starpaws [2019-09-11 14:01:35 +0000 UTC]

*[sad anthro Jakon noises]*

This is pretty amazing. A bit sad that western dragons seem implausible. I never really thought of muscle placement.

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BeckyKidus In reply to Nova-Starpaws [2019-09-12 07:56:52 +0000 UTC]

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MensanMayhem [2019-07-18 11:31:01 +0000 UTC]

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BeckyKidus In reply to MensanMayhem [2019-07-18 15:37:30 +0000 UTC]

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MensanMayhem In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-07-18 22:32:44 +0000 UTC]

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Jubatian [2019-04-02 22:24:32 +0000 UTC]

Fun read, just some random thoughts.


Warm climate wyverns I think could be pretty plausible even at larger sizes. Just don't put them in the rainforests, rather settle them in the savannah regions, where they could easily hunt herding animals. I have some of those even portrayed in stories.


Fire breath is something which wouldn't work, and not because we don't know anything in our contemporary fauna producing anything alike. Fire is just a weapon too dangerous to be used without intelligence as the creature could potentially burn down its own habitat. If such dangerous stuff evolved, it would likely quickly collect a Darwin award. I could imagine fire breathing creatures existing, but possibly only in something like a post-humanity setting where high intelligence is common, but balanced not allowing either specie conquering the rest by technological civilization.


Actually even the six limb creature could be contrived to exist, OrlandoSeaHorse below mentioned the draco lizard. You could possibly scale it up to have a reasonably plausible Dungeons and Dragons-style golden dragon, the trick is that the wing is not a set of limbs, rather a modification of the ribs. Probably even the musculature could be contrived in such an animal to make it functional for active flight, although it is a very unusual and unique concept from the perspective of aerodynamic.


Just a few bits. You could spot a few odd stuff in my gallery, like a "dragon" derived from the Sharovipteryx, another odd gliding creature which actually existed.

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BeckyKidus In reply to Jubatian [2019-04-03 19:14:21 +0000 UTC]

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Jubatian In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-04-22 21:15:10 +0000 UTC]

Just if interested. It gave me an idea then to try to contrive a dragon from the draco-lizard. Here he is . Wonder whether anyone before experimented with the idea on the terms of trying to get this construct somewhat functional within the constraints of real world physics.

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BeckyKidus In reply to Jubatian [2019-04-23 10:30:45 +0000 UTC]

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lapis-lazuri [2019-01-31 10:37:57 +0000 UTC]

Alas.... I am undone

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BeckyKidus In reply to lapis-lazuri [2019-02-02 10:57:13 +0000 UTC]

How come?

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lapis-lazuri In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-02-02 11:00:18 +0000 UTC]

Nah, that was sort of a joke.... not a very good one though. I must admit it was a bit saddening to me to read your conclusions. I feel.... strongly for dragons, let's put it this way. But I applaud applying logic and biology to fantasy, it's basically what I also do. Just to a different outcome

Btw, your wildlife art is very beautiful.

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BeckyKidus In reply to lapis-lazuri [2019-02-02 13:47:35 +0000 UTC]

I would really wish they existed too... Same with unicorns, winged deer, and a whole lot of other mythological creatures. I do hope my conclusions are false...


And thank you!

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lapis-lazuri In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-02-02 16:14:13 +0000 UTC]

Not in this world indeed, but there are countless other worlds. I cannot really imagine the dragons don't exist anywhere. In a manner of speaking that would mean I don't exist either....

You're welcome.

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BeckyKidus In reply to lapis-lazuri [2019-02-03 12:27:01 +0000 UTC]

This text is only about this world - I can't say much about the others, to say it like that!

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lapis-lazuri In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-02-03 14:47:59 +0000 UTC]

I missed that part, sorry. But I still like to stick to the idea, Nature is not constrained by our lack of imagination. Many real animals we see in this world would likely have been considered implausible if they were only fiction.

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BeckyKidus In reply to lapis-lazuri [2019-02-04 10:58:17 +0000 UTC]

"Nature is not constrained by our lack of imagination." I second this.

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lapis-lazuri In reply to BeckyKidus [2019-02-04 11:42:27 +0000 UTC]

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thetanforever [2019-01-16 18:01:28 +0000 UTC]

I enjoyed to read this, it's very interesting talk.


"...or they would look like wyverns or Chinese Dragons."


I thought exactly same. I had once a dream about a red dragon like creature, like some Red Chinese dragon, and he was so ugly terryfiyng, that nobody dared to look into his face.

I could feel the FEAR of him. In fact, it was not really "ugly", but rather some sort of energy "don't you dare to look at me, you little mortals!", and or "you cannot confront me!".

I think such beings can exist in Astral realm, and they work in these worlds, either to scare or punish some souls away here and there. Or maybe they have a civilization there,

and human souls are not welcome there.


There are several interesting facts about Dinosaurs actually. One of them is that they actually had feathers. So, probably Dragons too.


"a far more likely solution is that they live in areas which are warm all year round, like the rainforest"


Do you know about Hollow Earth theory? According to it, our planet Earth is hollow, and there's a full world inside of it, with permanent sun in the centre shining, permanent summer,

and quite rainy weather, with many rivers and forests. Mammoths still live there. (but Hollow Earth is a theory, not accepted by Science)


As for the fire, most logical to me would be that they can spit acid, that is corroding flesh and metals quickly, making it look like these surfaces are "burned".

Or that its acid, once in contact with specific materials like hair, or wood, or plastic - it starts flames.


Now, i want to share my vision of this, because i thought about "Dragons in reality" too, in the past.


Most important is GRAVITY. You see, if the gravity long time ago was 33% of today's Earth gravity (1/3 roughly), then many large animals could easily exist, all the massive big dinosaurs,

many mystical creatures, mammoths etc. Weaker gravity means easier to move, and more massive animals can grow because they need less muscles and energy to move around,

also, bigger lush and trees grow - providing MORE abundance of all kinds of foods for them.


So dragons could exist, mostly live wyverns, but they definitelly were more slim than in the fairy tales. Because even with weaker gravity, they need large wings and easy bodies to actually fly.


I saw some documentaries that says that even like 20 thousands years ago, Dinosaurs actually existed and that Earth gravity was 3x weaker. They found bones that seem to be not older than

20 thousand years or so. (these documentaries are probably not supported by accepted science)


Now, for the fantasy side, i think, dragons could live on gas giant planets like Jupiter, Saturn, Uran, Neptune, ASSUMING that the gravity on surface of these planets is like here or weaker,

and assuming that scientists simply have their calculations wrong for gravity there. This is my vision of possibility. Gas gaints are home for dragons, but the gravity is actually weak there.


Have a good day.


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BeckyKidus In reply to thetanforever [2019-01-17 10:58:15 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!


Some interesting theories! One day I should update this.

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EmmetEarwax [2018-12-25 15:41:23 +0000 UTC]

It seems that you look up and see a dragon in flight, a man with a green top hat and a frock coat will run up and point his wand at you -and you remember seeing an airplane coming into LaGuardia Airport.

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BeckyKidus In reply to EmmetEarwax [2018-12-25 16:18:22 +0000 UTC]

Exactly.

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OrlandoSeaHorse [2018-08-17 13:51:37 +0000 UTC]

Those tiny wyverns in a rain forest somewhere. I remember I saw a TV programme about real life dragons - they looked at many different creatures roughly resembling the description of a dragon, like Komodo dragons, etc. And one creature shown was a tiny winged lizard that couldn't fly like birds can but could jump off a very tall tree and navigate the flight/fall. Sorry, have forgotten the creature's name.

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Spottyleopar In reply to OrlandoSeaHorse [2018-12-02 19:43:49 +0000 UTC]

I think you are referring to the draco lizard which can extend a flap of skin and rib after jumping off a tree in order to glide and control their movement and even swoop upward at the end of the route.

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BeckyKidus In reply to OrlandoSeaHorse [2018-08-18 10:36:38 +0000 UTC]

I've heard about that one... I'll look it up. I'm trying to figure out a wyvern concept now, how they would look and act.

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Beto1207 [2018-06-20 00:00:22 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad to find someone who prefers the tetrapod dragons and more realistically than the magic hexapod dragons.

From my perspective, the largest winged dragons (wyverns) are endothermic and would not live in the European forest or jungles, but in the African savannah, because it is a warm place, with open spaces without too many trees make it difficult to spread the wings and it is also a place with abundant food. One support for this is Urlises Alrovandi, who describes them from Ethiopia.
Due to its biology similar to that of a bird of prey: flight, claws, agility and adding to its size; the ability to spit fire or poison is unnecessary, but if we suppose they had it, it could only serve as a weapon of last resort, when their physical capacities are not necessary, in addition to their limited performance: a prolonged and long-term flare would surely be exhausted at the first shot.
In addition, the holes from which the fuel would come would be located in the forward nose of the muzzle to avoid burning the palate and tongue.

As for the Long (nicknamed "oriental or Asian dragon") I agree with the scientific characteristics, but adding more details, remembering that they were associated with water and rain, that could explain their biology:
Its elongated body and its shrunken legs could be the result of an aquatic lifestyle. Its broad, flattened dorsal spikes would serve as dorsal fins. In males, those spikes along with cephalic crests must be larger and more colorful for dominance and attract a mate.
Due to their diet based mainly on fish and little aquatic animals, they do not represent a threat to human beings and therefore were considered as benevolent beings.
In the past, some specimens had to move to the ocean, becoming larger and completely aquatic, becoming the famous marine snakes.

I hope that my information will serve you

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BeckyKidus In reply to Beto1207 [2018-06-20 09:01:51 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for all the interesting information!

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Beto1207 In reply to BeckyKidus [2018-06-20 20:50:40 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome. I'm at your services.

By the way, since you mentioned the unicorns, biologically I consider them a type of large antilopes (in the folklore they have traits of these animals or goats like the hooves and the tail, therefore perhaps they were confused with horses because of their size).
In confrontations, competent males first measure their horns to see who has it longer; If both have the same length, they may cross their horns and push on opposite sides to avoid injury. The pickets are only for adverence or to intimidate the opponent but they usually only stab their predators.
Unlike other antelopes, its habitat must be the forest instead of the plains.
Although their coloration is commonly like other ungulates, albino specimens are more iconic for humans, as are white pigeons even though dark pigeons are more common.

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BeckyKidus In reply to Beto1207 [2018-06-21 13:45:35 +0000 UTC]

I do rather thing of them as a sort antelope / deer / horse thing. I did change it, I just didn't update that text... That was like the first version They cannot get hybrids with normal horses anymore either.


But I think they would work well on the plains - after all, most antelopes live there as well.

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Beto1207 In reply to BeckyKidus [2018-06-22 22:17:33 +0000 UTC]

Yeah!

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AHumbleBook [2018-06-04 13:38:31 +0000 UTC]

Wow that is really cool. You are really good at these sort of descriptions and all your arguments are logical

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BeckyKidus In reply to AHumbleBook [2018-06-05 11:05:05 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much!

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AHumbleBook In reply to BeckyKidus [2018-06-05 11:07:08 +0000 UTC]

Welcome

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ANAPH0RAA [2018-05-28 21:19:44 +0000 UTC]

Nice! A lot of what I thought, too- I never really went into the Chinese dragons. I doubt a lot of information about those (there was a myth where they became the rivers of China), but what you said seems logical. It's very possible they existed at some point, but not now, with the population. But the dragon remains could become fossils, and nothing of that nature has been found, obviously. 

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BeckyKidus In reply to ANAPH0RAA [2018-05-29 09:39:47 +0000 UTC]

There are like hundreds of myths about them... And each is different. I just looked at their traditional appearance, and discussed a bit around that.

Yes, I know... But then we have never found any evidence for wyverns either xD So it's all just theoretical.

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Wolf-Featherzs In reply to BeckyKidus [2018-07-21 07:07:29 +0000 UTC]

Quite a number of dinosaur specimens can be found in China. However, the Chinese used to dig up some of these skeletons, in some cases grinding up the bone and putting them into medicines. They believed these bones were from dragons, therefore having magical healing properties. Is it possible that in ancient times these bones were truly from dragonkind?

I guess it's a bit of a stub, and it doesn't explain much, but...
...it is just a theory

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BeckyKidus In reply to Wolf-Featherzs [2018-07-21 16:31:32 +0000 UTC]

I do like that theory, though

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KitaMikichi [2018-05-26 02:31:16 +0000 UTC]

Ooh, a very interesting take on how these creatures would work in real life! The way you explained the limbs and how it would have to have anatomy similar to a bat was an especially nice touch.

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BeckyKidus In reply to KitaMikichi [2018-05-26 13:25:30 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much!

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