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DARel-PhiForumClub — Catholicism Q and A, Issue 1
Published: 2011-07-16 04:52:29 +0000 UTC; Views: 844; Favourites: 1; Downloads: 0
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Description Hello!   here.  A few weeks ago someone commented to me that I ought to update the blog addressing issues specific to Catholicism.  I was and am happy to oblige.  I have answered 5 common question here (asked to me) and am working on giving concise answers with proper citations for the other 10-15 I have sitting on the list.

I will update with these Catholic Q&A blogs on a semi-frequent basis.  I am a full time student and part time worker, so I won't be able to update any sooner than every two weeks or so.  I know its not the most inventive or desirable name for a blog, but  I call it Catholic Q&A because if I called it Catholicism 101, I'd be tempted to drink in excess or shoot myself.

I am also looking to solicit questions for the blog.  If you have any, please post them as comments and I will put them on the list.  This particular entry answers a couple big questions, so it is rather lengthy.  I don't anticipate the following entries to be as lengthy, but if they have to be they will be.

I only ask that if you have questions, let them be honest ones.  No strawman questions and the like.  God bless you, and I hope these answers, in my limited capacity to give them, have sufficed.  Laus Tibi Christi.

How do you "become" a Catholic? As in, if a person wanted to join a Catholic church as an adult, how would they do that?

To answer this question, one must have a very good understanding of the etymology of “Catholic” and what “being” Catholic means.  www.etymonline.com/index.php?t… is derived from the Greek katholikos which literally means “on the whole” or “universal.”  The Catholic Church is the Universal Church, not simply “another Christian denomination.”  Catholics are the first Christians.  Why?  Because Christ founded His church, not “churches.”  Here is the relevant passage, highlighted.  Verse 18 from Matthew, Chapter 16: drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=16… that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ, and the Catholic Church is the Church, not simply a Church, we must take exception to the notion “Christians and Catholics” because it implies a difference.  There aren't Christians and Catholics, there are Catholics and non-Catholic Christians.  This guiltily brief history lesson ends here, and now that we understand what the word “Catholic” itself means, I will address the matter of “being” Catholic.

“Being” Catholic is an interesting concept.  One might say that its the sacraments that makes a person Catholic www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295… or going to mass every sunday.  These are important parts of “being” Catholic and one cannot “be” Catholic without the sacraments or the Grace of God.  But part of being Catholic is living Catholic, and a person is only nominally Catholic (Catholic in name only)  if they don't live life in accordance to Christ.  Obeying Church teaching and testifying to the Truth, the Light and the Way- Jesus Christ is part of being Catholic.  In Chapter 15, verse 14 of John, Christ says “If you love Me, keep My commandments.  drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=14… other words, there's being Catholic and being Catholic.  A person who was baptized Catholic and raised in the Catholic faith who represents patently anti-catholic sentiments and rejects the teachings of the Church is being no more Catholic than a person who was never baptized or raised in the faith.  He (the former) is nominally Catholic, but that means little to nothing.  

So, how does a person “become” Catholic as an adult?  Well, first they need to be baptized.  The Trinitarian rite of baptism is the only way a person can be baptized validly.  Many protestant sects, although not all, use this form.  This baptism, however, doesn't need to be administered by a priest.  In fact, the person baptizing doesn't even need to be baptized.  The Catechism of the Catholic Church on who can baptise: www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a…

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.59
The required intention is the correct form, the correct matter, and the correct intention. With baptism, the correct intention is to do what the Church does, the correct matter is water, and the correct form is the baptizing "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). www.catholic.com/library/Trini…

So what of those baptized Lutheran?  Or those baptized in other protestant sects?  If baptism makes a person Catholic, are those who were baptized Lutheran then Catholics?

I will explain.  First, there is no such thing as being baptized as a Lutheran or as an Episcopalian or any other protestant sect.  Baptism was instituted by Jesus Christ who gave his followers the command to baptize the world and to “observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you (Matthew 28 20 www.newadvent.org/bible/mat028… ) which includes following the instruction of the (Catholic) Church which he established (Mat 28 v 16-20 drbo.org/chapter/47028.htm Mat 10 v 40-42 drbo.org/chapter/47010.htm Mat 16 v 18-19 drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm Lu 10, 16-20 drbo.org/chapter/49010.htm Jo 20, v 20-23 drbo.org/chapter/50020.htm ) and gave to His disciples in order to shepherd souls!  Protestant sects are objectively heretical for this reason, that they denied the institution set forth by Christ.  So, first we must understand (also remembering that Catholic is universal- it is the Church, not “a” Church) that there is no such thing as being baptized “Lutheran” but there is baptism or there isn't baptism.  If there is a valid baptism (which is determined by the three aforementioned requierments: intent, matter and form) it is into the Catholic faith.  

Anyone is welcome to attend mass at a Catholic church (attend: to be present in the church and watch and listen to the liturgy), although some Churches have dress codes.  You are not likely to ever be told to leave as long as you aren't being distracting, but it is wise to use prudence in dress.  We don't go to mass to show people how beautiful we are or to attract attention to our new shoes or haircut, we are there to worship God and commemorate the sacrifice of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.  It is good Christian charity to be modest in dress so that you are not distracting to others.

But being present at mass doesn't make you Catholic, so what, specifically does an adult have to do in order to be received as a formal member into the Roman Catholic Church?  Well, when the time comes to be fully communicated with the Catholic Church the prospective Catholic must say “I believe and profess all that the Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”  You cannot say this unless you know what the Church believes, proclaims and teaches.  Thus, an instruction period is necessary before the administration of these sacraments.

For those adults who were validly baptized, they are called candidates.  These adults won't be baptized again.  Upon completion of instruction they will receive the sacrament of confession, confirmation (this is when you “officially become” catholic) and then Holy Communion, in that order.  For those who have not been baptized, they are called catechumens (from the latin “to be instructed” www.newadvent.org/cathen/03430… ) and upon completion of instruction will first be baptized, and then receive the aforementioned sacraments in their aforementioned order.

The first place to start is by calling your local parish.  Believe it or not, people are converting or at least thinking about converting all the time, so whoever picks up will know exactly what to tell you.  Usually the first thing that happens during the instructionary period is that the candidate or catechumen will meet privately with the priest and be interviewed.  This isn't a job interview, there are no right or wrong answers.  This is for the purpose of (literally) knowing your life's story (or at least as much as you want to tell) and what brought you to God.  From here, the process becomes very parish specficic.

Wherever you go, you will be required to learn about the faith accoding to the catechism (www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc… www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks… www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks… ) Scripture (www.newadvent.org/bible/ drbo.org/ haydock1859.tripod.com/index.h… ) and Church teaching (www.theworkofgod.org/dogmas.ht… jloughnan.tripod.com/dogma.htm www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104… ).  Don't worry, you aren't studying to get a doctorate in theology.  It is important that you know the basics of the Catholic faith (speaking from experience, once a person starts to learn about Catholicism they don't want to stop anyways) because they are the foundation of why we are here, what our relationship with God is, and what He expects from us, as well as what is required of us to merit Life Everlasting.  

Depending on how many people are interested in becoming incorporated in the faith when you are, you may have a class with ten other people interested in converting, a class with five, with two or maybe even just private sessions.  The one thing you can count on is that this will be a time of great spiritual progress, as well as self discovery and most importantly, discovery of God.  This may also be (as was the case for many people I know who have converted) a time of distress.  The devil does not take kindly to those who no longer wish his gifts, and will do anything in his power to stop them.  I know many a conversion “horror” story of a person's temporal life being in disarray around their conversion.  Remember that the closer you lean towards God, the harder the devil will pull.  A wise person once said to me “If the devil can't get you by making sin fun, he'll try to get you by making prayer miserable.”  

Thankfully, our hope is in God, and Satan cannot withstand Him.  drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=38… ut Deus? (Who is like unto God?)

Different parishes handle instruction differently, so for specifics a person would have to contact the parish they would be attending if they were Catholic.  Here I have provided a link to a website that provides a beginning catechism class.  The priest who does this is at my local parish, he is a good man.  These audio files are free and I highly recommend them.  There are 23 (24?) hours of audio, and they go in a succession.  They are not just for “beginners.”  I still listen to them.  www.fatheraltier.excerptsofinr…



What is a first communion and why is it so special?

Ay yi yi, a good question with a very long answer.  To understand the Eucharist www.newadvent.org/cathen/05572… in a greater dynamic, one must understand the Divine Liturgy, that is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006… those who aren't familiar with Catholicism you can think of the mass, for the time being, as where Catholics “go” when they “go to Church.”  It is, of course, so much more than simply going to Church.  Condensed, the Sacrifice of the Mass is a commemoration and “re-enactment” of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.  The priest, the representative of the people, offers common bread and wine which is consecrated and literally becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.  The process by which this happens is called transubstantiation www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573… is nothing figurative about Holy Communion, it is literally the body, blood, soul and divinity of God.  Why do Catholics do this?  John chapter 6 Verse 51-60

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. [53] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [54] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.  [56] For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. [57] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. [58] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. [59] This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. [60] These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.

Now, many non-Catholic Christians like to contend that Jesus didn't literally mean “eat my flesh and drink my blood” but it was a metaphor, an allegory for eating “at the same table” with Him or being “in communion” (loyal) to Him.  But lets examine the Greek word from the Septuagint, the word from where the vulgate is translated to eat: τρώγων (trogo) literally means “to chew” or “to gnaw.”  www.scribd.com/doc/36903542/Tr… is not allegory, it is literal.  Now perhaps you are getting an idea of why First Communion is so special.  It is a personal invitation from God to eat at His table and fulfill his commandments.  

So are Catholics cannibals?  Its ok, you can ask the question.  It would seem that if one of the cornerstones of our faith is to eat flesh and blood that we are cannibals.  We are not, for several reasons.  One, when we consume the Host (another word for the Eucharist.  Also known as the Blessed Sacrament) we are consuming Christ's entirety- both His human and divine nature.  Cannibalism is one entirely human person eating another entirely human person.  Holy Communion, while involving Christ entirely (His human and divine nature) does not involve a person who is only human.  Two, Christ is not dead when we eat the Host, nor will He “become” dead by our subsequent eating of it.  Three, and this is probably the biggest point.  Holy Communion has absolutely no adverse affects on Christ, it is for our spiritual sustenance and He does not become less of anything by our doing so.  Cannibalism is when a human eats another, and the human who is the victim becomes less.  Christ does not.

I would recommend again these audio files, particularly the ones on the Eucharist (they are labeled as such) because they are able to go into more detail than I have here.  These are really just the basics, the proverbial tip of the iceberg.  www.fatheraltier.excerptsofinr…

Also, here is a link that is relevant.  Currently, there is an investigation underway regarding a suspected Eucharistic miracle at my local parish.  A Host which had been dropped took the physical appearance of bloody flesh.  The Chancery is currently investigating.  There is a picture and article here eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2…

Why all the Latin?

Finally, a question with a simple(er) answer.  Because its bad-ass and sexy!  

A couple reasons.  First, I should point out that not all lay Catholics use latin with the frequency that I do.  And part of the reason that I use it so much is because I have a heavy devotion to Tradition, and the Tridentine mass, which is said entirely in latin.  The reasons are not many, but they are important.  www.catholicapologetics.info/l…

Latin was the language of many of the early Church Doctors and fathers.  They were within the Roman Empire so that is what they spoke.  Latin is the official language of the Catholic Church.  Out of concern for dogmatic unity, documents are written in latin.  This way there is far less room for error.  Another reason is for stability.  Modern languages are constantly changing, adding and removing colloquials- God's word is ever-present and living, so the language in which we interpret it in cannot be of a weak foundation.  Another reason, and I'm serious, is that its beautiful.  Listen to this:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxyETH…

Whats the difference between a priest and a monk?

A monk www.newadvent.org/cathen/10487… is a man who lives in a communal setting (monestary www.newadvent.org/cathen/10459… ) with other monks (or brothers) who has taken vows of obedience, chastity and poverty.  It is not an ordained order.  In other words, he doesn't have the “powers” or faculties of a priest.  A monks life is one of solitude, meditation, contemplation and prayer.  Some monks even take vows of silence.  They live for God alone.  Monks of a community own the property they live on, farm it and are self-sustaining communities.  The word monk is a popular term, not actually a Church term.  I am assuming that by monk you are referring to someone that looks/dresses like this kbpipes.files.wordpress.com/20… themselves, they are referred to as brothers, and may be addressed as “brother.”  Of course, monk is a common colloquial and there is nothing wrong with the term, its just simply very vague.  Different monks will belong to different orders (Including, but definitely not exclusive to Franciscan www.newadvent.org/cathen/06217… ) and the community life differs from order to order.  A monk may or may not be studying for the priesthood.  A monk may be a priest, and if he is, he is referred to as a Friar www.newadvent.org/cathen/06280…

A priest www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406… is ordained to administer the sacraments.  While a monk may go through some initial screening before being accepted to a monastery, the road to the priesthood is long and arduous with many years of study.  A priest study at a seminary www.newadvent.org/cathen/13694… like med school except the medicine he is learning to administer is that of Jesus Christ.  He may be the subordinate of a particular order (Jesuits www.newadvent.org/cathen/14081… Redemptorists www.newadvent.org/cathen/12683… or others) but he is usually given his position (that is, the locality where he is a priest) by the local bishop.  A priest's main vocation is to celebrate Holy Mass (which a monk cannot) and administer spiritually to his congregation.  His office is a true imitation of Christ.

Can a woman become a priest?  Why or why not?

No.  This is a very sensitive topic and the answer is not difficult, but involved.  Because of this, instead of relying on my own far from perfect oration skills, I will post an exerpt from a very concise article on the issue, providing a link to the article itself and relevant links within the text.  From Jason Evert:

Why doesn’t the Church allow women to be priests? I know plenty of women who could give a more moving homily and be more understanding in the confessional.

“There aren’t many issues within apologetics that require as much sensitivity as this one. In a culture where opening the door for a woman can be seen as an act of misogyny, it’s no surprise that male-only ordination strikes some as sexist on the Church’s behalf.

It can’t be denied that there are women who could be more moving orators than some priests and provide more consolation within the confessional. But the debate over ordination is not over who could be a better priest but over who could be a priest at all.

So, if a woman’s abilities are not in question, what’s keeping the Church from ordaining her? For one, it should be noted that Jesus did not ordain any women. He selected all of his apostles, and none were women.

Some say that he was bound by the cultural norms of his era to suppress the roles of women, but no one has been able to prove that this was his motive. Furthermore, this accuses Jesus of sexism and it paints an inaccurate portrait of Christ, who had no qualms about shattering the cultural norms regarding interaction with women (Matt. 9:20 drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=9&… Luke 7:37 drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=7&… John 4:27 drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=4&… ). The idea of priestesses was not unknown to him, since it was a common practice in religions of his time and culture, though not Judaism. (If Jesus had wanted women as priestesses, he would have had the ideal candidate in Mary. Here was a woman who could have spoken the words of consecration literally: "This is my body. This is my blood.")

There were other roles that Christ had in mind for women. For example, they played a key role in the spread of the Gospel, being the first to spread the news of the risen Christ. They were also allowed to pray and prophecy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16 drbo.org/chapter/53001.htm ), but they were not to assume the function of teaching in the Christian assembly (1Cor. 14:34–38 drbo.org/chapter/53014.htm 1 Tim. 2:1–14 drbo.org/chapter/61002.htm ), which was restricted to the clergy.

Two thousand years later, no one—including the pope—has the authority to change the designs of the Church that Christ instituted. Specifically, the Church is unable to change the substance of a sacrament. For example, a person cannot be baptized in wine, nor may a substance other than bread be used for the consecration at Mass. If invalid matter is used, then the sacrament does not take place. Likewise, since the priest acts in the person of Christ, the Church has no authority to confer the sacrament on those who are unable to represent the male Jesus Christ.”

To the article itself: www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002…

Thanks for reading, and remember to ask your questions!
Related content
Comments: 97

SnarkyPhiles [2011-08-25 04:03:53 +0000 UTC]

Latin is rather sexy lol. I always feel pretty lost when I attend Catholic churches. I get lost in the memorized Latin and other prayers. And there seems to be quite a bit of sitting, standing, and kneeling.
But this was very informative and I appreciate the work you've put inot answering these questions.

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angelstar2114 [2011-08-19 18:29:48 +0000 UTC]

thanks for telling me
but I want to know
how many kinds of catholic are there
I am roman catholic but my friends tell me I am Christian
so what are the kinds>

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Oswulf In reply to angelstar2114 [2012-07-24 21:48:36 +0000 UTC]

I'm gonna be a horse's ass and add to the stuff the other guy said. There actually are over twenty flavours of Catholicism. However, unlike with your heretical denominations, the various Sui Juris (flavours) of Catholicism are all in union with the Holy See and Pope, and have Apostolic lineage. Roman Catholicism is the oldest and probably best organised manifestation of Catholicism. I think there are 23 Sui Juris, and the ones I know about are Greek, Maronite, Melkite, and Russian. The basis of difference is in the manner orthopraxis is achieved, but mister (missus?) !camau already covered that. So anyway, good luck and God bless!

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camau In reply to angelstar2114 [2011-09-29 10:01:54 +0000 UTC]

Everyone who believes in the trinity is Christian so yes, we are Christian.
And we are Roman Catholic. There aren't different types of Roman Catholic, just different rites. These rites do some stuff differently (traditional stuff: clothing, gestures, parts of the mass) but they all recognize the Holy Father as head of the temporal church and follow the Roman Catholic teachings on doctrine and morals.

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angelstar2114 In reply to camau [2011-09-29 20:52:44 +0000 UTC]

ok

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ImitatingLight333 [2011-08-04 15:37:40 +0000 UTC]

You are a braver Catholic than myself Styro! Thanks for doing this!

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pixxishiv [2011-07-25 11:48:51 +0000 UTC]

Interesting Stuff! Growing up catholic doesn't even give you this kind of proper info!

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camau In reply to pixxishiv [2011-09-29 10:03:51 +0000 UTC]

You should buy the Youcat.

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Neoconvoy [2011-07-18 18:31:52 +0000 UTC]

Very good.

Also, the answers given in the comment area are interesting too.

Blessings !!!

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EnuoCale [2011-07-18 10:13:37 +0000 UTC]

Back from my retarded trip.

This is good, too. We still need to see if we can find some more people who want to be blog writers. Preferably competent ones. So that the idea of cross-area discussions is imagined, even if not actualized.

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Aodhagain [2011-07-17 00:59:21 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for writing this! I skimmed through most of the information, which I think was well put (I'm already a Catholic, so... ). We are, of course, all bad Catholics. There were only two good Catholics: Mary and Jesus. All the rest of us have done rather a poor job of being Catholic.

Nice defense of Latin! Oh, and I heard about the potential Eucharistic miracle at your parish, very cool!

Pretty good defense of male priesthood only. I'd like to recommend this [link] and this [link] which are perhaps some of the most profound defenses of that issue I've come across. Dr. Peter Kreeft is absolutely fabulous.

Let me know if you would like any help putting these together! God bless, and thanks for doing this! Happy feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel!

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TESM In reply to Aodhagain [2011-07-17 21:15:38 +0000 UTC]

I would claim a few saints are excellently good Catholics.

I'm also convinced, as my new piece on Confession gets polished up, that it's not so much the destination of "holiness" (in a manner of speaking) that we must operate from, but rather it is that constant journey towards Him that God desires. This is why I believe the Psalmist says "Offer praise as your sacrifice to God; fulfill your vows to the Most High" (Ps 50:14). In this manner, we often get so laden with guilt that "we're not there yet" that we forget it is by His grace that we even begin moving, and we ought to be thankful for that.

I also thought St. Peter, in the end, was a pretty decent Catholic.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-18 00:45:13 +0000 UTC]

Interesting. Wouldn't the argument be that by operating from the platform of constant journey towards Christ that one simultaneously grows in holiness? Or perhaps thats what you're saying...

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-18 02:16:57 +0000 UTC]

precisely. We are never, or rarely, at a destination. As Francis de Sales says (to paraphrase) 'the journey of ourselves towards God does not end, nor ought it to end, but with our deaths.'

So too with our spiritual growth, it has to grow with us. As we grow old, a whole varied set of weaknesses beset us and thus new challenges, physical and spiritual. For "the devil prowls like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour" even til our last breath. We ought not lose our crown, for, as St. Paul says, "only those who run the race are worthy of a crown of victory."

We start it, and we have to finish it.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-18 02:30:24 +0000 UTC]

Very good. Complacency is such a dangerous vice, and one Catholics have to be aware of more than others. Once you avail yourself to the Graces of almighty God, Satan will try to convince that "its enough." Never. You can never be too close to God.

I look forward to reading this!

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Aodhagain In reply to TESM [2011-07-17 21:28:57 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, many saints have done quite well.

Well said, as usual. I've noticed definitely that the devil over the course of Church history has used the idea that we're too unworthy to seek great holiness, and definitely stunted a lot of people's efforts - especially to make them lukewarm. Too pious to be impious, but too impious to be pious. Which is a serious serious problem, and thankfully Vatican II called this out and affirmed our universal call to holiness.

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TESM In reply to Aodhagain [2011-07-17 21:34:57 +0000 UTC]

and, nevertheless, as I meditate with St. Francis de Sales, this was the called us to this in the 17th century, not to say anything for Bonaventure and Aquinas 500 years before then. I think so much beauty of Catholic history is lost, even on us.

This struck me at Mass this morning, from the 1st reading on Wisdom. Something to the effect that "And you taught your people, by these deeds, that those who are just must be kind; (Wisdom 12:18).

Awesome passage.

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Aodhagain In reply to TESM [2011-07-17 23:25:02 +0000 UTC]

I'm a great fan of St. Francis de Sales and St. Bonaventure and certainly of Aquinas. That is a good passage. I was very struck by the Gospel today, it's definitely one of my favorite ones.

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TESM In reply to Aodhagain [2011-07-18 02:13:12 +0000 UTC]

The one from two weeks ago (I think) that said "be shrewd as a serpent but peaceful as a dove" is great too.

Hopefully you'll like my piece on Confession where I try and make good use of the Psalms and Proverbs.

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Aodhagain In reply to TESM [2011-07-19 01:38:24 +0000 UTC]

I'll take a look at it!

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Emprovision [2011-07-16 22:17:23 +0000 UTC]

Nicely written!

The church I attend doesn't use any Latin during Mass (at least not during ordinary time), though apparently the Church is instilling a new version of the English Mass based on an updated translation from Latin.

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TESM In reply to Emprovision [2011-07-17 02:18:26 +0000 UTC]

yup! In effect this Advent.

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StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-16 19:48:27 +0000 UTC]

I wanted to add, as a comment, I left out a very important thing. In question one where I say that anyone may attend mass, only baptized catholics in the state of grace may recieve Holy Communion.

I am adding this here instead of in the article because, frankly, its already long enough.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-16 21:48:15 +0000 UTC]

In other words, you can attend mass whether you're catholic or in the state of grace, but you may only recieve Holy Communion if you're Catholic and in the state of grace.

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sixlessthansixty [2011-07-16 16:31:44 +0000 UTC]

So basically women can't be priests because Jesus was a man?


Also, great first blog It's very informative and I don't think its too long (imo) unlike some people online, I don't mind reading a lot of text. I know I'm in a minority, though.

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TESM In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-07-17 02:19:33 +0000 UTC]

No, it's because he chose men in that ministry. Women, especially considering the time (for the sake of argument) maintained a much higher position because of Christ, but he still never had any of them as his 'apostles.'

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sixlessthansixty In reply to TESM [2011-07-17 02:36:29 +0000 UTC]

It makes one wonder why he never chose a female apostles. Or, it makes me wonder.

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SDA-MessengersOracle In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-09-15 13:07:41 +0000 UTC]

We're each given a place, purpose and path in life to fulfill as only we--set up by God--can fulfill. Only you will be able to reach someone, touch someone in the way that you will/can; no one else will have that ability but you, and so it is with us not being chosen as upfront leaders in the church. But that positioning is okay because we're right where God needs us to be to be able help someone perhaps in the future or each and every day.

It all works out perfectly.

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TESM In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-07-17 03:33:38 +0000 UTC]

In all honesty, we get so caught up in equality (as meaning I get whatever someone else gets) that we no longer let people be who they are (i.e., men and women).

Likewise, I think when we reduce people to a role we can diminish them, but when we perfect ourselves within our role we outshine everyone else in that capacity.

I think Christ elevated women to a very high position, especially considering that He revealed Himself first to St. Mary Magdalene. Nevertheless, he called on men to be his priestly advocates, but there are women of equal honor (an important distinction) in His Church and in his circle, as opposed to equal (i.e., the same) roles.

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sixlessthansixty In reply to TESM [2011-07-17 03:39:08 +0000 UTC]

"I think when we reduce people to a role we can diminish them, but when we perfect ourselves within our role we outshine everyone else in that capacity." I really like that

Mary Magdalene was a saint?? I thought she was a whore or something. My grandparents didn't speak highly of her when I asked about her. Though, I take everything they say with a grain of salt

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-07-18 00:38:38 +0000 UTC]

Some of the most famous saints were terrible sinners. St. Paul made a living killing Christians. St Augustine was a libertine and a drunk.

The Church is a refuge for sinners, not from sinners.

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-19 03:17:03 +0000 UTC]

I think as scrupulous as Augustine was with himself, that's just mean. He was a neo-platonic skeptic, that's bad enough.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-19 03:32:46 +0000 UTC]

Ha, I mean no disrespect to a father of the Church. But I think he would be the first to admit his shortcomings. I am not "calling him out" rather I am using him as an example of how the worst sinners can make the great saints. These men and women, are in particular, I think the best examples to people who are not Catholic (yet.) I am a revert, was raised in the faith and then turned atheist/pagan for quite a while. For those that seek the truth, often they have a difficult time reconciling their pride with God's mercy. He has offered it to us, and it is free.

I love the stories of saints who have done such wrong. They speak to the unlimited mercy of God. Think of St Peter- I mean, I can tell you right now if I was around during that time, God forgive me, if Jesus says to Peter "You are my pope" I'm thinkg... "Eh, Lord, this man denied you."

But haven't we all? Ever think about that? I'm sure you have. What about John? The beloved one, the only apostle not to desert Christ. He wasn't the first pope. Of course, the beautiful thing with John is that He loved our Lord so, it didn't matter to him one iota. But no, Peter, the man who denied Christ three times and right after recieving Holy Communion, nonetheless, was Our Lord's choice for pope.

But yeah, I mean to disrespect to the good doctor, I only meant to point out that what a person did is no indication of what they are capable of doing with the Grace of God Almighty.

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-19 03:48:19 +0000 UTC]

Personally Peter is a personal favorite of mine, because he was also the only saint who, although not for long, walked on water as well. I think that John himself was gifted with death from old age, like apparently Mary Magdelene. All of the other apostles were martyred.

From my perspective, I've always been Catholic and (in some manner) have brought many of my family members back to the faith... I'm still working on some.

As for your last statement, that's their great beauty indeed.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-25 20:18:18 +0000 UTC]

Well wasn't John exiled?

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-25 20:29:44 +0000 UTC]

He was, but "exile" in the ancient world doesn't necessarily mean under strict guard like a house arrest. There was undoubtedly a community that formed around him and his literature. Jesus did say "pray that you might not undergo the test." John remained with Jesus and Christ confided with him at the last supper as well.

I should say that my statement "brought back many family members to the faith" is a bit overboard. I should say "some" [just a personal reference for me in the future].

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-25 20:31:04 +0000 UTC]

well yah, I thought I read they put him on an island somehwere....

or maybe that was napolean...

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-25 20:42:12 +0000 UTC]

No, they did exile him to an island, but it's not like they didn't have boats. Likewise, he is supposedly said to have trained St. Polycarp (who taught St. Irenaeus).

So the Romans did banish him to an island, but he died, apparently about 100AD which would put him at about 80-90 years old, which is pretty dang good in the ancient world.

it was the island of Patmos, but he was just banished from the Roman empire, but many communities in the early Church wrote for his help and wisdom.

I'm afraid I don't know much more than that.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-25 21:17:54 +0000 UTC]

Well its really interesting because all the other apostles were martyred, and here's John the beloved and they won't even touch him, they put him on his own island.

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-25 21:31:33 +0000 UTC]

as far as legend goes he was boiled in oil but to no effect. It was in a Colleseum. Many were apparently converted through this and Romans, fearing his resilience, exiled him. I think, given the nature of the Roman persecutions, there can be some inference that something happened for even the Romans to get rid of him via exile and not martyrdom.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-25 22:13:49 +0000 UTC]

ha, if I put somebody in boiling oil and they put their feet up and asked for a mai-tai and a magazine, I'd get rid of them in quick fashion too!

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-25 22:20:13 +0000 UTC]

Yea, reading certain accounts from St. Austin, Polycarp, etc. St. John ordained many bishops in the Orient Churches ans spoke against many heresies. This is perhaps why both Islam and Orthodox churches respect St. John as well.

A great, free resource is Butler's Lives of the Saints in 12 volumes. Most/all on Google books.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-25 22:21:46 +0000 UTC]

Great heads up, thanks!

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-25 23:03:08 +0000 UTC]

the language can be a touch archaic, as it was published about 1850, but as a Latin-lover yourself, his diction should be old hat.

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StyrofoamB00ts In reply to TESM [2011-07-26 02:46:41 +0000 UTC]

Actually, I did a search for it and all i found were modern translations wherein those who had reviewed the text were particularly dismayed...

Do you have a link to something that isn't a revision? Or a better revision? I'm not sure if the stuff I found was what you're talking about

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TESM In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-26 02:53:48 +0000 UTC]

My mistake. The modern title is "Lives of the Saints"

The proper title is The Lives of the Fathers, Martyrs, and other Principal Saints" which is by Butler (1821).

One such book is here (vol VII, July) [[link]

You'll have to do some digging for the rest, but an awesome set to download.

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sixlessthansixty In reply to StyrofoamB00ts [2011-07-18 01:18:23 +0000 UTC]

How in the world did they become saints, then?? I thought they were supposed to be perfect examples of morality or something. People to look up to.

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TESM In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-07-19 03:20:14 +0000 UTC]

Reading Augustine's Confessions is a great insight into this. Likewise St. Francis de Sales "Intro to a Devout Life" shows this.

Some saints were pure, in a manner, in charity and love. St. Anthony, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Therese of Lisieux for example.

But sainthood is founded on humility, devotion, and doing God's work (faith, hope, and charity/love) in whatever manner of life you lead. There are saints who were farmers who lived quietly all their days and simply prayed every day, went to mass, were kind to animal and person alike, and did their work (St. Isidore the Farmer). Others were widowed janitors (St. Guy) and some were mothers who lost their children and husband (St. Rita).

They're beautiful examples of living a saintly life precisely where we live our own.

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sixlessthansixty In reply to TESM [2011-07-19 16:45:29 +0000 UTC]

That's really inspiring

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TESM In reply to sixlessthansixty [2011-07-19 16:51:05 +0000 UTC]

Ha, now actually doing it requires some work!

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