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KantiaCartography — Alternate East Asia
Published: 2013-05-31 23:35:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 10102; Favourites: 91; Downloads: 101
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Description
Decided to try something new, altering an existing map instead of making a new one. It isnt a particularly unique idea, but I feal that Ive illustrated it very well and it turned out okay.
Instead of writing some long history to go behind this, Ive got a question for anybody who reads this. What do you think happened here? Please dont be afraid to put your thoughts in the comments!
This was the best scenario, created by kyuzoaoi.deviantart.com/
1944: Tannu-Tuva unites with Mongolia as the Tannu-Tuva autonomous aimag.
1944: The Second East Turkestan Republic is declared as per OTL. However, in 1947, it unites with the USSR.
1946: Instead of being handed over to China, Manchuria was declared an "Autonomous State" by an ethnic Manchu Chinese Communist general [forgot the name]. He had a falling out with Mao that kept it secret.
1947: A worse Pei Tai Shan incident in which some Kuomintang general invaded Outer Mongolia causes the Outer Mongolians to declare war against China.
1948: A coup by the Tibetan Communist Party ousts the Dalai Lama.
1949: As per agreement, the Communist Chinese accepts the incorporation of the Uyghur SSR to the USSR and the independence of Mongolia, Tibet, and Manchuria as long as they are communist. Mao reluctantly agrees.
1950: in the Korean War, the Chinese People's Volunteer Army are disguised as Manchurian troops. The result is still as in OTL.
1969: border clashes in the Sino-Manchurian-Mongolian-Soviet border. Communist Tibet is pro-China, to Mao's relief.
1970s: Taiwan, South Korea, Japan develop secret nuclear arsenals. In retaliation, North Korea ramps up its nuclear program, and the USSR gives Manchuria nukes [but the keys are always remain under Soviet command]. Ditto with Mongolia.
1990: Lhasa revolt: the hardline communist regime in Tibet was overthrown and the Dalai Lama returns, but as a normal citizen as Tibet was declared a republic. However, the overthrown commies find a new host...in Nepal.
1991: Uyghuristan declares independence from the USSR. It is today like OTL Kazakhstan but with more Chinese. The Chinese language there is bi-script: one in normal Chinese script, and one in...Cyrillic.
1993: Manchuria's communist government was sacked by a velvet revolution.
1994: Kim Il-Sung dies in North Korea.
1997: To divert the attention from the famine, Kim Jong-Il orders to attack Yanbian province in Manchuria. Kim Jong-Il miscalculated about Manchuria's capabilities, thinking that the Manchus gave up their secret arsenal. They are wrong, as the destruction of the North Korean III corps in the Yalu border by a tactical nuke proved as well as the bombing of Yongbyon facility where they the NK are almost complete in having a nuke arsenal. The predictable happened: with Manchurian agents, there was a North Korean revolution that overthrew Kim and co. Hwang Jang-yop's interim government surrenders to the ROK and was forced to abandon Juche as ideology.
1998: Manchuria signs an agreement with South Korea where the ROK will be de-jure ruler of North Korea but Manchuria will help rebuild the former NK. Also North Korean autonomy ala Hong Kong for 40 years.
2001: the new anti-Communist Tibetan government invades now-Communist Nepal and sets up a puppet government there.
2005: another Velvet Revolution happens in Manchuria, making the country more democratic.
2008: Manchuria had its troops leave North Korea.
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Comments: 91
Thanks, but this one is actually an edited map rather than one I made from scratch. For all my maps I've used Adobe Photoshop 8.0.
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That isn't seem any Bad
Awesome AltHistory by the way
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wtf how many times do I have to say that please take Amdo and Kham as well when you draw a freed Tibet
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Its not necessary, only preferred. Like most countries, Tibet has a max size and a min size. In this scenario, Tibet has the borders of OTL current Tibet, which is like somewhere in between max and min.
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It IS necessary. This one makes the map looks disgusting... And I forgot to mention that you should include Bhutan and Arunachal as well
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Just think. If it were absolutely necessary, then modern borders wouldn't be possible.
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Was just looking back at this map, thinking about making an updated version, and I saw this comment. Did you ever figure out what I was trying to say? Just because a country "should" have certain borders, that doesn't mean that it will. A country's borders are just as much based on its interactions with other nations as they are based on ethnic distributions or historical claims. Regardless of whether or not such a Tibetan state would claim all of the lands that it "should" control, believing that it could wrest large amounts of land from China or the British Raaj is just wishful thinking.
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And there is another idea...
Turn the remaining area of Hebei east of Tianjin as well as with Tianjin into the Province of Zhili.
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Maybe you could adopt the idea into one your own maps? You already have plenty of Soviet-Chinese scenarios.
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Of course! I already done that with Manchuria. I am even trying to build a fake Wikipedia article about Manchuria, to be posted here in the future, but I fear I may be accused of plagiarism, and yes, I am a bit lazy, but that's mostly because I haven't researched them thoroughly. But I will try to be original as possible and not be too lazy.
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The basic idea isn't mine. I didn't come up with any of the lines or the history or anything really. I just wanted to see if I could copy the style of an existing map and alter it to look legit. I am just as likely to be accused of plagiarism and it wont happen.
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I decided that the POD is...
1944: Tannu-Tuva unites with Mongolia as the Tannu-Tuva autonomous aimag.
1944: The Second East Turkestan Republic is declared as per OTL. However, in 1947, it unites with the USSR.
1946: Instead of being handed over to China, Manchuria was declared an "Autonomous State" by an ethnic Manchu Chinese Communist general [forgot the name]. He had a falling out with Mao that kept it secret.
1947: A worse Pei Tai Shan incident in which some Kuomintang general invaded Outer Mongolia causes the Outer Mongolians to declare war against China.
1948: A coup by the Tibetan Communist Party ousts the Dalai Lama.
1949: As per agreement, the Communist Chinese accepts the incorporation of the Uyghur SSR to the USSR and the independence of Mongolia, Tibet, and Manchuria as long as they are communist. Mao reluctantly agrees.
1950: in the Korean War, the Chinese People's Volunteer Army are disguised as Manchurian troops. The result is still as in OTL.
1969: border clashes in the Sino-Manchurian-Mongolian-Soviet border. Communist Tibet is pro-China, to Mao's relief.
1970s: Taiwan, South Korea, Japan develop secret nuclear arsenals. In retaliation, North Korea ramps up its nuclear program, and the USSR gives Manchuria nukes [but the keys are always remain under Soviet command]. Ditto with Mongolia.
1990: Lhasa revolt: the hardline communist regime in Tibet was overthrown and the Dalai Lama returns, but as a normal citizen as Tibet was declared a republic. However, the overthrown commies find a new host...in Nepal.
1991: Uyghuristan declares independence from the USSR. It is today like OTL Kazakhstan but with more Chinese. The Chinese language there is bi-script: one in normal Chinese script, and one in...Cyrillic.
1993: Manchuria's communist government was sacked by a velvet revolution.
1994: Kim Il-Sung dies in North Korea.
1997: To divert the attention from the famine, Kim Jong-Il orders to attack Yanbian province in Manchuria. Kim Jong-Il miscalculated about Manchuria's capabilities, thinking that the Manchus gave up their secret arsenal. They are wrong, as the destruction of the North Korean III corps in the Yalu border by a tactical nuke proved as well as the bombing of Yongbyon facility where they the NK are almost complete in having a nuke arsenal. The predictable happened: with Manchurian agents, there was a North Korean revolution that overthrew Kim and co. Hwang Jang-yop's interim government surrenders to the ROK and was forced to abandon Juche as ideology.
1998: Manchuria signs an agreement with South Korea where the ROK will be de-jure ruler of North Korea but Manchuria will help rebuild the former NK. Also North Korean autonomy ala Hong Kong for 40 years.
2001: the new anti-Communist Tibetan government invades now-Communist Nepal and sets up a puppet government there.
2005: another Velvet Revolution happens in Manchuria, making the country more democratic.
2008: Manchuria had its troops leave North Korea.
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Hmmm very interesting. Although I had imaged a few things differently, I believe your explanation is much more likely and very similar to the basic idea I was looking for. If you would allow it, I will put this in the desription.
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With some tweaking of yours, you can!
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In real life, China was going through a number if internal and external difficulties in the 1800's, like the opium war with Britain. They eventually managed to work their way out of it and become larger and more powerful than before.
In this version however, it seems that they couldn't fix their problems and the surrounding nations took advantage of their weakness, taking their land and such.
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I was thinking more along WWII
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Mao Zedong never became the leader of Chinese communists. After WWII and the defeat of the Japanese occupier, the civil wars ended in China ; the UN and the Guomindang (nationalist party) reached to an agreement to stabilize what was left of the previous empire and create a modern, more or less democratic state. But on the other hand Chang Hai Chek had to accept the independence of large parts of previous Chinese provinces, such as Mongolia, Manchuria, Tibet, or the muslim Uyghurstan... The map is a nowadays' map and the USSR no longer exists ; actually the Cold war was not as tough as in OTL (No Korean war for instance).
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I was thinking more along the line of Mao recieving more initial Soviet aide, and then later being replaced or assassinated.
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I was actually thinking of Soviet aide earlier on, with more Soviet influence in the area than OTL.
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I'm guessing that the Revolution didn't go quite as well as they'd hoped.
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Im not sure if it wasnt as well, but the end results were certainly different. All of the states, except Tibet, were communist.
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Hmm..I wonder which ones are in Moscow's camp.
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Thanks! Without zooming in, it actually looks legite
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First I actually thought it was scanned or something.
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As you can imagine, recreating the gray pattern was a pain
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Could happen in a few years. there western provences (the Muslim populated "Turkastain" and the annexed Tibet)
China has always been an empire parading itself as a country
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Although I agree, I would pay special attention to the borders of Manchuria
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Manchuria has a decent amount of territory there, some of that is S. Mongolia
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You mean Inner Mongolia. If you know anything about the history of Manchuria, you will recognize its border and at what time it was created and for what purpose.
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not a whole lot to be honest. I first lean about Manchuria form a map in the Maps and Flags group so I thought it was simply made up. then I did a little digging at its a region/country that China swallowed up like Tibet.
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Well it was a little different than Tibet. The last of the Chinese Dynasties, the Qing Dynasty, was ruled by a Manchu family and dominated by Manchu politics and culture. It was a nation at a time, but after WWII it was merged back with China. Look up Manchukuo.
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Ah, we'll like I said, my Chinese history isn't that great. At least when it comes to territorial boundaries.
But is their really calls for independence in Manchukuo? Or is that just to do with this map?
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Today, Manchu independence isn't really a big issue, but this map wasn't set for today, and it did not gain its independence by itself or by its own choice.
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Ah, so only a few people want independence (there's always a few)
But I wonder if this is why China is taking the slow boat to democracy. That East Turkistain and Tibet will want independence and it'll just snowball from there.
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Yeah, I believe, as does most of the intelligent world, that China will only find peace and economic and political harmony after it has shaved off its edges.
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It might take a total collapse for that to happen. A moment Taiwan has been waiting for since Mao drove them off the mainland.
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Tibet and East Turkestan, possibly Manchuria taking independence, Mongolia takes over Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan ruling the Mainland, with the capital still in Taipei...
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Possible The Republic of China would do what Germany did after WWII and outlaw communism. The atrocities committed weren't as bad or as many as the Nazis but still they did try to topple the RC.
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I was thinking of doing a similar map to this, with non-communist china. Anyways nice map.
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I think everyone has this idea at some point or another.m just glad Ive done a map of it and I can let the idea go.
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