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Kidforlife β An Undertale Theory
#chara #frisk #papyrus #sans #souls #theory #toriel #undertale #asgore
Published: 2016-03-04 02:34:59 +0000 UTC; Views: 568; Favourites: 5; Downloads: 0
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So, uh, maybe someone's done something like this, maybe they haven't. But very recently, I experienced Undertale after avoiding anything related to it. I LOVE IT! As I make my way through others playthroughs on youtube (Ross from Game Grumps/Steam Train does best Papyrus) a question wormed its way into my brain and won't go away.Who killed the other six human souls?
Toriel seems to imply Asgore did, but never says so directly. I think the line is "They.... Asgore... will kill you." However when you do finally face him.... he is extremely uncomfortable with fighting you. (His hands tremble, his breathing gets funny) He knows he "needs" to fight you, but he doesn't like it one bit. He doesn't even look at you while fighting. And everyone else talks abut him in a way that makes me think they couldn't even conceive of him being dangerous. (He's a big fuzzy pushover, everyone loves that guy.) (King Fluffybuns) If he killed them, wouldn't his people brag about that? "He's such a great warrior he's defeated six humans!" or something like that. After all, monsters are in awe of how strong and determined humans are.
It's not Undyne. She makes comments like she has never faced a human herself before. Also, why would she ask Papyrus what you were wearing if she knew exactly what humans looked like? She also makes other comments, trying to convince you (or maybe herself?) that she's doing the right thing for everyone.
And Papyrus.... No. Just no. He has to be reassured that you are, in fact human, and even if you get 'captured' by him.... Just a thousand times no.
Then... Sans maybe? It's a possibility, but... I don't think so. He and Papyrus appeared in the underground recently, together, and I don't think he would hide a human from Papyrus, as he is so eager to capture one.
Mettaton, and by extension, Alphys? I.... don't think so. Again, another possibility, but.... No, I don't think so. In a pacifist run, Mettaton only "attacks" you so Alphys can "help" you against him. In a Genocide run, his alternate form is obviously just a desperate attempt to slow you down; and ultimately fails.
Maybe other monsters? After all, MANY of them mention "Once we have seven souls, we'll be free!" but.... None of them seem to recognize you as a human either. They need a human soul, but none of them seem to know a human on sight.
Then... Flowey? But why would he allow them to leave the ruins and then kill them elsewhere? And even if he did? How did the souls get away from him? How does Asgore have them now?
Then... Other guards? There are several of them around, but most of them are easily distract-able dogs.... There's even a "blind to still things" dog, a pretty big disability to have for a guard... There is that pair in Hotland, the... dragon and bunny(?) but they don't know you're a human. In fact... I think I've stumbled on the answer here. All the guards are kinda bad at their jobs.
What if... what if there were other guards? Loyal, strong, good at their jobs, know-a-human-when-they-see-one guards that the other humans met. Think more Undynes. Guards that were dangerous and determined. And were sure they were doing the right thing for monsters everywhere. Under Asgore's orders. And obviously.... the other humans don't seem to be bad. If they were, wouldn't everyone know a dangerous human when they saw one? I mean, maybe they only fought the guards preventing their progress. (Also, why would it be "customary" to do anything facing a human if no guard had done it before) Or maybe the humans didn't fight, and were defeated. Maybe they didn't have access to saves or resets.... I mean, Undyne is where my playthrough would have ended if I didn't have resets.
This, to me, makes the most sense. Now, one could say "but what happened to these "other guards" and where are they when Frisk/Chara appears?" Well... think about it. These other humans must have behaved peacefully, not attracting attention, otherwise everyone would know what a human is and think of them as dangerous. Taking the life of someone, even when it's necessary, EVEN IF THEY ARE FIGHTING YOU AND DOING SO WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE, can leave the person responsible with some severe guilt. All of the monsters seem to be very wonderful people. What if they retired out of guilt? Or what if they were wounded if/when the other humans fought back? What if, because the head of the guard was on it, they just... avoided you? What if THEY are what Sans is protecting you from?
It's not a perfect theory. I get that. But I think it makes the most sense. It explains other characters' behavior. Maybe they are the "They" Toriel refers to. Maybe they are why "You'd be dead where you stand." if Sans wasn't watching out for you. Maybe they only just held on through a battle with a human to capture the soul. (Think Undyne in the genocide run) And for those saying I'm overthinking it; THIS GAME WANTS YOU TO THINK ABOUT IT.
Ok, ranted too long... but I would LOVE to hear others theories. Heck, even point out where I'm wrong. I love talking about this game.
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Comments: 8
Asgore is a Toby-confirmed six-time child killer. I believe the exact quote was "Past Asgore, not to Asgore" followed by rip times six or similar.
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If that's what Toby says happened than I can accept that. But it is kinda funny that no one mentions it exactly in game. And Toriel definetly says "They....Asgore will kill you." So there still are others Toriel is worried about.... Though that could be Undyne. Ah well. I had fun theorizing anyway!
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He probably thought that what dialogue there was as clear enough; Undyne's dialogue at some points does indicate that she's never actually seen a human face-to-face before, as well.Β
I suspect that the "they" is more a holdover from the demo, where Asgore is not named in that monologue (since it reads a bit awkwardly in the final), but if not it could refer to the royal guards who would end up killing the fallen humans by bringing them to Asgore if they captured them. And most of the monsters aren't trying to hurt you when they attack you, but they can kill a human anyway (monsters use danmaku as communication, if you missed/forgot about that book in the Librarby).Β
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Like I said, I figured I was probably wrong at places LOL
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Coming straight from the horse's mouth (dog's mouth?)... it was Asgore.
I remember reading a tweet that Toby Fox replied to in regards to a question about Toriel and Asgore getting back together. Toby basically said no, because she can't forgive him for killing the other children she was taking care of.
Did Asgore want to kill any of those children? Of course not. But he made a series of rash and very bad decisions after Asriel's death, painting all humans with the same brush, not realizing what he had done until it was too late. He declared war. He said all humans would die. He said that he would kill any human that fell into the Underground and use their souls to free everyone, without any foresight into the consequences of his actions. When he encountered that first child, he believed heΒ had to kill them, because he made that promise to his people. But the other promise, the eradication of humanity, he couldn't bring himself to carry that out. So he waited, as Toriel said, "meekly hoping a human never comes," but more humans fell Underground and eventually encountered Asgore.
And he killed them.
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Huh, see, this is the stuff I missed because I only just got into undertale. So if that's Toby's explanation I can accept that. But with the data I had from the game this is what I came up with. So cool, thanks for pointing this out!
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No problem! I'm probably the trashiest Undertale trash, hacked it a couple of times for finding super-secret secrets, and I'm always on the hunt for new theories and lore stuff, so there's very little I don't know about it!
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Seems legit. Personally, I do agree with you for the most part, but mine is a little different; I believe that the items were scattered in an area of choice as they ran. For example, the Purple soul (perserverence) took time to study and learn and spare. My guess is that they spent time with Gerson, dropped their items there...and never came back. Ya get it?
I believe that most of them were killed by Undyne and/or Sans. Papyrus wouldnmt bring himself to hurt anything; and from his dialogue, before the protagonist he had never met one. Sans, of course, had; as he recognized the protagonist, dusty and beat up and tired, as a human and not an odd monster (which every other monster did) instead.
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