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dannysuling In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-08-11 17:43:36 +0000 UTC]

Well, I LOVE the tears. It's excellently done, and very realistic for a cartoony approach to tickling. Kudos to you, my friend!

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to dannysuling [2015-08-11 20:42:27 +0000 UTC]

It's a prefrence, I'm not someone who gets off on other people's pain

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dannysuling In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-08-12 13:13:43 +0000 UTC]

Seems to me that that you might have an awfully funky view of "bondage," per se. Sure, I connect with the "Love Bondage" scene, and have practiced consensual bondage in my own happily married life. We don't seek pain, but rather pleasure. However, it's important to acknowledge that the physical and mental dividing line between pain and pleasure can shift, can merge, can even disappear from time to time. Bondage scenes trade on exactly that, whether artistic fantasy or consensual play.

But here's the more important point: a huge amount of the kink material here at dA (and certainly elsewhere) makes no claim to consensuality in the relationship being depicted. Bondage involves restraint. That's what bondage is. This means that the person who is bound cannot do certain things they might prefer to do, even if they agree that that's okay. The "cannot do" is critical, since otherwise why involve bondage rigging at all. This extends as well to gags (which can certainly be uncomfortable and frustrating). Non-consensual fantasy bondage, including a high percentage of the thousands of bondage-related images posted here at dA, make no concessions to the necessity of avoiding pain.

I'm not criticizing your own discomfort about seeing pain images or symbols (like tears). That's you, and your emotional and physical preference. But I am concerned that your fantasy of bondage without pain or discomfort appears to be so distant from the reality of the experience. More than that, in the real world, people who are kept bound (and perhaps gagged) are always in that situation against their will. Real bondage is demeaning, painful, risky, insulting, and is entirely a power game with no eroticism involved for the victim—and it's almost entirely illegal! That's the reality. All the stuff we do here at dA is fantasy, and it's important to remember that. So when an artist decides to bring his/her image just a bit closer to reality (adding some tears, or a mouth wide in the midst of a scream, or whatever), it's simply an acknowledgment that these things are routine in real life bondage situations. In fantasy one can select the fetishes one wants to display. Whether you as a viewer prefer them is of course your privilege. But for each person (like you) who prefers not to see tears, there will be at least one viewer who does. That's the nature of fetish, and of fantasy.

Just sayin'.

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to dannysuling [2015-08-12 21:43:23 +0000 UTC]

It seems to me, you assume to much. Consensual is one thing, yes but what part of that is consensual and is forced do to the experience you can't really say...

I know all of that jesus I'm not some kid, and you don't know how I see it, some people I've met on here get off on the pain of seeing others in discomfort, and breaking them, turning them into toys against their cosnent and pretty much being a sicko...

Not discomfort, just a normal human, according to the mental health guide anyway, save a few ticks here and there, but that's the thing people depict that here espicially in stories where they capture people and torture them against their will. Even if it's fantasy you still get off to it it's part of you , it's just that you don't act on it, same for a person who thinks of murdering huge amounts of people, they may not do it but they still imagine it. I get it's fantasy but you still get off to it as I said that's the big part

Nice try at being a condescending though, I know that's a big thing for you bondage people trying to stay superior then everyone else

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dannysuling In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-08-13 15:09:24 +0000 UTC]

Far be it from me to get into a name-calling pissing war. I work very hard not to ascribe personality traits to anyone, whether or not I agree with what they're saying. If condescension is what you picked up from me, then I didn't express myself clearly enough. I merely expressed my concern that your personal preferences and discomforts might be getting in your way of seeing a bigger picture (ff course I could be wrong, and if so you're always free to ignore me), while trying hard not to denigrate you as a person. I don't believe I did. Your views are clearly shared by many. My point was that they're not shared by everyone.

From where I sit (sometimes with perspective occluded, I confess), discomfort is part of the human condition. A lot of stuff happens in the world over which we have little if any control to affect change, and this is especially true when we encounter people who are not discomfitted with the same stuff we are. I don't want to slide down the chute of "multiculturalism"; that's not at all where I'm heading with this. In my view, forced clitorectomies are violations of a woman's self regardless of the country and culture where it occurs. At least, that's how I see it, and I always have. And I don't believe you'll find any voice on dA stronger than mine when it comes to protesting the horrifying reality of sex-slave trafficking, kidnapping, etc. etc. My spouse and anyone who knows me well knows I'm a committed and vocal feminist.

But posting cartoons and 3D images of such things like experiencing pain in bondage is not the same as acting on those fantasies to involve real non-consenting invididuals in real pain-inflicting bondage perils.

I take your point that in real-life role-plays involving bondage, sometimes what seems like "consent" is in fact a power imbalance that compels some people to accede to something they'd prefer not to do. Or they start off fine and then find themselves in over their heads. That's exactly why there are widely available guidelines, strong and well-tested behavioral requirements, and even an ethical check-list for doing consensual bondage role-play, including negotiating with partners things like safe-words, limits, etc. etc. People who practice bondage and who don't follow those guidelines put themselves and their partners at risk for exactly the scenario you worry about. Does this preparation protect everyone? Of course not. There are people with psychological issues doing this stuff out there who ought not to, for all sorts of reasons. Like you, I believe they ought not to, and I'd tell them so if they asked me. They don't ask me.

But the thing is this: on dA there's nothing going on that involves actual physical relationships. It's all fantasy, all fiction. And of all the fantasies that get reflected at any of the website out there, where murder, dismemberment, torture, war, terrorism, etc. are being advocated and depicted, bondage art and bondage stories on dA are among the least significant concerns for many people. There are some transgressors, yes. There are always transgressors. And there are some artists whose sex fantasies far exceed my own tolerance. I ignore them or delete them when they cross my screen. Or, sometimes, I engage with them as an artistic perceiver, just to assess my own biases and to be open to artistic experience (sort of like going to a musuem of modern and post-modern art where some of the works displayed are, I find, insulting to my sense of what is aesthetically attractive; I have my personal standards, but they're not the same as everyone else's, necessarily).

Sexual fantasies and fetishes are part of what the brain does, even the "sanest" brains. It's part of our make-up. Why evolution should have given us humans the potential for constructing these fantasies and having these fetishes is something I do not believe we yet have any answer to (I'm not particularly a Freudian). But I don't assume they are bad for us, and I don't assume that artistic efforts (no matter how poor) that depict fantasies or fetishes are bad (no matter how disgusting). And it might not be "art" for you. Fair enough. As long as you recognize that it might be, for others.

Each of us knows "good art" when we see it...but we don't necessary agree with what falls into that category.

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to dannysuling [2015-08-13 22:25:02 +0000 UTC]

The fact you think my views are getting in my way of seeing a bigger picture, just shows you don't think I'm capable of seeing both sides, I do in fact see the bigger picture, but I have my own values and morals. I know not everyone sees it the same way, that's how you're talking down to me, like I'm a child.

Well that's good to know, but some people take it too far


It's not the same no, but it's still the thought of getting off to it, is still very sickening to a degree. I mean come on you have to admit it's not quite normal and can be seen as disturbing.

That's my point, some people don't know better...


I get that, and I was just stating my personal prefrance, you're the one who commented on my comment.....


Again I know all that, you make it sound like I'm uneducated... Never said they were outright bad, I used to be big into some dark stuff, got to a point where I was disturbed by my interests and decided to tone down what I liked because I was in a dark place. I see others like that now, people who are into stuff even if it is fantasy you still like it.. I know it can be a valve of sorts, but you never know who is going to take it too far...

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dannysuling In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-08-13 22:54:59 +0000 UTC]

It would seem that we are much closer in our views than it originally appeared, and I'm glad about that.

I find it fascinating that, in conversation when one person says something the other person has already thought about, aomng the possible responses are:

"Right. Exactly! That's how I see it, too."

or

"I know all that. Don't treat me like a child."

You've chosen the latter, mostly, and there isn't much I can do about that, it would seem.

In my world, it's always better to be completely clear and not make too many assumptions about what others know, particularly when the only way of getting to know them is this semi-IM/semi e-mail thing of comments here at dA. Has nothing to do with any assumptions I've made about your education or the breadth of your knowledge about things. Indeed, I didn't make any assumptions whatsoever, but simply wrote down some of the things that I felt needed to be said, regardless. No intent to diss you or your perspective, only to point to potential nuances and consequences.

Sounds like my attempt at clarity was interpreted by you as preaching (it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten such feedback, but it doesn't happen often). I don't mean to preach, but to give voice to a perspective that doesn't always get put on the table. That you're already familiar with it is a good thing, of course, but how would I have known that in advance, without already having had conversations with you?

Not sure about you, but I'm feeling in an okay place about this. I hope you are, too.

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to dannysuling [2015-08-14 00:10:52 +0000 UTC]

Indeed

It is haha, I'm just used to people talking down or trying to appear smarter then they are when talking to me so I automatically align myself that way I guess, old habits are hard to kick.

I get what you're saying, and yeah me too

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paws4thot In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-07-31 12:54:26 +0000 UTC]

"Why isn't my adblock working?" You do know that a new version of Windows has just escaped? Even if you're not running W10, modifications related to it may have messed up adblockers etc.

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to paws4thot [2015-07-31 16:36:36 +0000 UTC]

It was a joke XD haha because he was advertising LOZ's artbook

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paws4thot In reply to Dragon-Cana-Love [2015-08-03 09:37:00 +0000 UTC]

Ah right; I was only semi-serious too (the part where blockers may not work like they did before was serious).

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Dragon-Cana-Love In reply to paws4thot [2015-08-03 09:54:16 +0000 UTC]

I see

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