HOME | DD
likwidoracle — A flag of the past?
Published: 2005-01-15 04:43:19 +0000 UTC; Views: 17972; Favourites: 184; Downloads: 1005
Redirect to original
Description
So this was one of my first things i've ever submitted on this site and it to no surprise created a lot of criticism. most of my older stuff i have taken down but i wanted to leave this one up just because of how many views it received and comments also. I did remove the comment section just because of how political it got. I did enjoy the discussions it created and i understand if it can upset some people, i am definitely not trying to stir a rumble between people or put anyone down. I hope everyone enjoyed the discussions that went on with this piece and thank you for all the criticism (even the bad stuff). I have definitely grown into a full different style of artwork over the past eight years, but i'm glad i can keep this piece up to show how much my style has changed.Related content
Comments: 146
Well...there were no slaves up in the North. One of the triggers for the Civil War was that the South felt that their rights to bring their property (slaves) to a new State was being ignored by the North (Southern Politicians were for "State's Rights"). It was the reason for the Missouri Compromise of 1820 and the Kansas-Nebraska Act later in the late 1850's.
It was the question of whether bringing in a "Free" State or a "Slave" State that brought about much of the conflict.
The North didn't want a westward expansion of slavery while the South was highly dependent on their slave labor due to their economy being agrarian. They consider it their right "to own property" as per stated in the Constitution.
Now don't get me wrong. Many Union volunteers were not fighting for the freedom of slaves. Indeed, many deserted after Lincoln publicize the Emancipation.
There were once slaves in the North (few in numbers though due the type of geography) but are nonexistent by the time of the Civil War in 1861.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Sorry, I have to quote another person on a comment concerning the flag.
"This flag DOES, in some ways, represent racisim, among other things, and if you think otherwise, well then you're probably a white person who is not old enough to remember the atrocities that were committed under this flag. Sure it's also represents the southland ect., and that is fine, but you can not forget, it also stood for the right to own slaves, and basicaly the oppression of an entire race of innocent human beings. And this flag was used to justify this kind of thinking.
Just ask any African American who is old enough to remember his, or her friends, or family members hanging from a tree some where in the south because of the "freedoms" that this flag represented. I know that we should never forget our past, and this flag represents a big part of that history, but we can't sit here and pretend that it is just about the south, country music, and "the good times", and nothing more because it's just not true. Just as well as we have to remember the good, we also must never forger the bad to be sure these kinds of horrors can NEVER be permitted to happen ever again. Because it's a fact that when people forget, history often repeats it's self, for better or worse.
Now I know that not every person who flies this flag is racist, or equal to a nazi, that's just crazy, but I also know that this flag has a very soiled past, one that should never be forgotten or dismissed. And i feel very strongly that no matter how a big of a role this flag had in America's history, it still has NO PLACE flying over any American government buildings ever again."
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Just an interesting fact is that Union general Ulysses S Grant's family owned slaves and Confederate General Robert E Lee's family didn't.
Another fact is that Robert E Lee and president of the Confederates Jefferson Davis believed that slavery would die out.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Um im not here to give a history lesson, insult one part of america and encourage the other. im here to say that we shouldn't insult someone because of past peoples actions, saying that the North is corrupt and unjust is wrong but saying that the north are also the saviors of slavery are also wrong. Saying that the south were nothing more then racist jerks are also wrong but saying that the south were at equal terms with the north in slavery is also incorrect. But we have to stand as one nation not against each otherwise those who would want to hurt americans can easily persuade one side of america to defeat the other side. If America was to be divided in half, wouldn't we only have half of our strength. Thats all I wanted to say and God bless America
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Historian Drew Gilpin Faust observed that "leaders of the secession movement across the South cited slavery as the most compelling reason for southern independence." In Texas's formal declaration of succession it stated causes as such: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable. ]The flag represents those who fought for this. The flag is a disgrace to American history. Oh and by the way, stop waving these flags around, my country beat your succession over 140 years ago, GET OVER IT
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Actually, if you were fighting for the Confederate States of America, you would have marched under your particular state's flag. The "Rebel Flag" was developed by a foreigner who felt that we needed more unity on the battlefield, and wasn't used until the latter part of the war.
As a Southerner, however, I do respect what you're doing and agree that the flag should not be surrounded by bigotry and white supremacy.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Agreed. I visited in the Northern United States (I'm from the South... Tennessee to be exact) and all the people I met were under the impression that Southerners were all racist, didn't wear shoes, and went to school in one room school houses. When I informed them that we did not, they were very shocked. While I had the opportunity, I enlightened them on the real cause of the Civil War. Also shock from them. That annoys me.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
no one up here that's educated thinks your ALL racist and don't wear shoes. We know that there is still racism and intolerance, more so than up north. But we don't think your all like that, and by the way what was the "real" cause of the civil war?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
The South did not lash out from mere outrage at the removal of slavery,but rather the overwhelming number of carpetbaggers and others flocking to the Southern states and taking advantage of the people and the far weaker economy. Certainly there were those who were outraged mainly by the slavery issue, but that was not the reason for the majority of Southerners.
By the way, I mean no disrespect. 
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
lol about a year ago I would have flamed this *is sorry*. I don't like the Confederate flag not for what it stood for, but what it's used for now. Sort of like how before WWII the swastika was not a bad thing, but now it's used for white power and what not. It may have had a perfectly innocent purpose of representing the southern states during their attempt to separate from the union, but today it's flown as a symbol of white supremacist and other bigoted agendas. It's an unfortunate fact of life.
That being said. This is a great piece of work, and I wish you luck in your endeavor to bring back the Confederate Flag from it's exile on the red neck trucks of America.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
This is beautiful, so blatant and so true. I am a direct descendent of Robert E. Lee and just once I would love the chance to sit down and talk with the man; he had such wisdom and eloquence. It breaks my heart to see American citizens who see the flag under which he fought and immediately associate it with the right to keep slaves; this is so devastating and so false; the Confederacy stood for so much more.
I'm glad you have done your homework and even more delighted to see my ancestor's words on your lovely piece. With your permission, I'd like to make this the desktop background on my laptop.
Thanks for sharing!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
thank god look at facts not what your school taught you the civil war is the most misunderstood thing in american history
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I'm southern, but not racist. I don't think slavery was a good thing, and believe in equal rights. It doesn't mean I can't love that flag!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Robert E. Lee was prob one of the best leaders of our country's histroy.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
i thought that "Taxation Without Representation" was the American Revolution, not the Civil War.
correct me if i'm wrong, i thought that the big deal on the war was the fact that the south would've been shot on income if slavery was abolished. they didn't exactally have the industries of the north.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
my state didn't quit the union cause of slavery...it wasn't all just about slavery.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
which state are you? just curious
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Nc i was taught we quit the union because when SC quit The President ordered us to send troops to attack and we refused because people here had family there.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
makes sence. but i was talking about the general cause of the war. the south's economy was one of the reason's for the war. obviously other states had their reason to join the confederacy. i'm sure that TN (my state) didn't join just for that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Taxation without representation - I don't think so, they had fair representation in congress according to the Constitution - during the war the only reason the Southern Reps or Senators seats were empty was because they were off supporting the damned Confederacy!!!
There were just as many slaves in the North as in the South - most northern states abolished it before the war even started, except Delaware and maybe a few others
The only reason Lincoln brought about the Emancipation Proclamation was propaganda? - Seriously? It one ended slavery, two kept the British and the rest of Europe out of the war and keep it from getting worse and, three got the needed increase of Northern support for the war
The only reason people are like 'THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN' is because of how the Radical Republicans took over thanks to Booth, a die hard Confederate who shot the South's best friend - Lincoln!
And yes, I am a Southerner from Virginia whose ancestors fought on the side of the Confederacy under Stonewall Jackson all the way up to the Battle of Gettysburg.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well said. This is point for point an accurate representation of the facts regarding this matter.
American High school history books teach the OP's comments. Unfortunately, American high school history books get many things wrong- this included.
For further reading- and to compound on Historybuffy's statements- I would forward you to James Loewen's "Lies my Teacher Told Me." An excellent book.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
my history teacher has this flag hung up on his wall, i was just telling my friend today in that class about how the confederate flag looks so much cooler than the flag we have now lol
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Fantastic! I love it...at least someone won't bash the southern flag...I get rather tired of that
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Fantastic! Nothing can be said that has not already been said!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Personally i dont see where it's any different from someone from mexico or greece or the philippines showing pride in where they come from. And there are just as many gangs and hate groups from places like that that use their flag as their symbol. And for some people they don't have anything. Everything's been taken away from them via warfare or something and they have been stripped of human diginity and for them all they have is pride in their homeland or their race so no I don't see where this is any different.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Thanks so much to everyone that has supported this Image and even to all the people that have argued that it is racist. I'm glad to see that, for the most part, people still have their own original opinions on this and are willing to converse on it. I have much more artwork that I have made that i need to start putting up but I have currently just moved to missouri and starting to get set up here and also working very hard on my music, and of course working in the airforce. Once again I want to thank everyone for supporting this in a good or bad way, either way believe what you believe just don't be completely closed minded, open up a little and listen to other people but fight for what you believe in, thats truely what this country was founded on........ Thanks again!!!!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Cold Hard Fact:
If those who had formed the Confederate States of America and waged war to establish such a state lived in the time of or had the Geneva Convention existed back then would have found their asses hauled over to The Hague or Geneva or where ever and had to answer to charges for their economic, political and social crimes against humanity (like those who perpetrated the Nazi and Japanese Imperial regimes) only AFTER they manged to finagle out of at LEAST 12 counts of the Highest forms of treason (i.e. Conspiring to and/or engaging in negotiations with foreign governments for military assistance in armed insurrection against the United States or any of them). Judgment of History is upon them.
Case Closed!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
But, of course, nations change, right? And industrialization would have changed the South and eventually they would have lost the need for slaves. Any mention of Nazis or Imperialist Japan is nonsense, the South wasn't nearly as bad and I highly doubt they could have concocted a good enough lie to get that kind of trouble done before being crushed by a stronger nation. Altogether, the south never had a chance to see how it would have fared as a nation.
I suppose we will never know 'what would have happened'.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
This is an amazing masterpiece, I love itI enjoyed reading the controversy, it helped me learn more about my flag. I never got why Americans were praised like heros when they ran from Britian, and Southerners were spat on when they tried to run from the USA. For those of you who still have the fricking idea that this beautiful flag stands for slavery lovers, it might have way back then, but now it's a symbol of our heritage. I take this flag to heart even more. I am a rebel against the government - it's destroying the Godly foundation on which it was built. What happens when you take a foundation out from under a building? it collapses, correct? The REAL USA's forefathers built the nation on the Bible. Government and people alike are trying to pick it and fling it like a booger. Makes me SICK! When I was younger I loved to draw American flags. Now that I am older and have watched this nation fall apart, I draw Rebel flags. I'm Southern to the bone, and I regret when I got onto my aunt for having a Rebel case for this very reason. I was too stupid to realize the signifigance of this.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
A very wonderful piece of art, and an intellegent person who knows the actual reason for the civil war and the true reasons for the flag! I commend you for your glorious piece of art that will be adored by the Southerners who remember who they really are.
"This flag was flown by the South during it's war for independence (1861-1865). It is a very controverisal topic in the states but for all the wrong reasons. It is a sign of Southern independence and wanting to follow our way of life, going against oppresive goverment rule and taxation. It is a very important part of our history and people want to forget it. As the quote by General Lee says, we cant forget who we are, for we wont know where to put ourselves in the future."
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You know, I heard after the war, a lot of blacks said they were better off as slaves. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but I still can't believe most of my classmates back at school still think the south was evil.
Come to think of it, the civil war was about state's rights, not slavery.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
yeah, your right. actually, most former slaves said they were treated very good, like family sometimes. the only reason everyone say that the slaves were treated HORRIBLY was because of like one or two masters and they blew things hugely out of proportion.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And the kids at my school gobble that stuff right up.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well it only shows their historical ignorance in this ^^ they believe yankee myths~
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
damn straight i went to private school and guess who suspended for drawing a confederate flag on his bookcovr (fyi we had a kid who drew swasticas he didnt get in trouble till latr when i ratted on his ass that wasnt right which would sem worse hitler or god damn patriot lik Robert E Lee
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I think that Slavery was outlawed in the north By the time of The Civil war. But I think for the most part your right. Should we say that Hindus,who use the swastika as some kind of symbol, should not use it any more because Hitler took it and twisted it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It most definitely was not. Lincoln outlawed slavery in the *rebel* states, but allowed slavery to remain in "his" states, so that he would not loose them to the south. There was other stuff, but I don't remember exactly what he did to keep the border states.
lol look i learned something in APUSH.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You're work is beautiful, and I'm SO glad that there are people who recognize what the war was REALLY about. I hate the fools who say "the south was evil, because they were the only ones with slaves and Lincoln was a godly hero!"
The truth is that it was brother versus brother, for a multitude of reasons, significantly State's Rights as individual states, rather than as one large state. (in effect). Lincoln, like Obama today, happened to have a knack for placing the right words at the right moments to motivate people to doing his agenda and voting for him. (whether or not they were/are just).
Basically, thank you for this beautiful work.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You know I never thought about the flag much more than anything than having to do with the points you put up, about slavery and such. I didn't know it had to do with taxation without representation. That's really interesting. Sometimes what few do, the white power groups aka,idiots, affect how everyone percieves things. This is cool that you're undertaking showing this flag means something different!! That takes a lot of guts and a lot of knowledge.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
It`s so ineteresting! Though I from Russia I very much am interested in history of civil war and confederation
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Alexander H. Stephens, vice president of the Confederacy, on the new confederate government:
"its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
(That's "Slavery Is the Cornerstone of the Confederacy," 1861)
Jefferson Davis of course got mad at Stephens for saying what everyone already knew because the Confederacy would be less likely to gain the support of any in Europe if it were so open about its intentions.
And John C. Calhoun, South Carolina's US Senator and one of the most influential senators of the time:
"What is it that has endangered the Union? To this question there can be but one answer--that the immediate cause is the almost universal discontent which pervades all the States composing the Southern section of the Union. This widely-extended discontent is not of recent origin. It commenced with the agitation of the slavery question and has been increasing ever since."
("The Cords of the Union Are Snapping One by One," 1850)
Still sure that slavery isn't what caused secession? What "taxes" are you even talking about?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Still sure that slavery isn't what caused secession?"
I wish I still had the five-page essay I wrote in my college-level USHistory course on almost EXACTLY this prompt...
Instead, I'll quote someone else:
"One of the main quarrels was about taxes paid on goods brought into this country from foreign countries. This tax was called a tariff. Southerners felt these tariffs were unfair and aimed toward them because they imported a wider variety of goods than most Northern people. Taxes were also placed on many Southern goods that were shipped to foreign countries, an expense that was not always applied to Northern goods of equal value. An awkward economic structure allowed states and private transportation companies to do this, which also affected Southern banks that found themselves paying higher interest rates on loans made with banks in the North."
"he years before the Civil War the political power in the Federal government, centered in Washington, D.C., was changing. Northern and mid-western states were becoming more and more powerful as the populations increased. Southern states lost political power because the population did not increase as rapidly. As one portion of the nation grew larger than another, people began to talk of the nation as sections. This was called sectionalism. Just as the original thirteen colonies fought for their independence almost 100 years earlier, the Southern states felt a growing need for freedom from the central Federal authority in Washington. Southerners believed that state laws carried more weight than Federal laws, and they should abide by the state regulations first. This issue was called State's Rights and became a very warm topic in congress."
[link]
Our school system focuses rather too much on slavery as the cause of the civil war. It was ALSO (slavery was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back) about state rights, tariffs, and other stuff.
It is, however, two in the morning here in the beautiful South, where my ancestors have lived and died for the past four-hundred or so years, so I suppose this should end my rant.
In no way should this be read as a defense of slavery. It was bad (< doesn't even begin to describe it), but it wasn't the SOLE cause of the war.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
sorry to everyone that likes this piece, i would have been putting up more and making so much more pieces but the military has currently got me run down between living in england, going to afghanistan, romania, vegas, louisana, and other places in the past 3 years, i have really dropped off on my art, other then music thats about all i create and do now... hopefully someday soon i can put some more pieces on here, maybe if they add a music spot on here i would but until then im not sure when i would have the time... i thank you all for the comments, good or bad, if you like me or hate me i don't care thanks to everyone that has looked and seen at small piece of my outlook on life, history, and politics.... thanks again!!!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
| Next =>