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Nekromanda β Stamp: What if?
Published: 2012-05-14 02:25:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 9959; Favourites: 310; Downloads: 15
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"What if GOD* is the BAD guy?"*Referring to the God of the Bible
BibleGateway.com The Official King James Bible Online Bible Suite Online Parallel Bible The Thinking Atheist: List of Biblical Atrocities Secular Web: Bible Atrocities Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Cruelty and Violence in the Bible Videos
The Atheist Experience: Why does a loving God send people to Hell? Bg: [link]
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Comments: 934
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Plot twist, lmao
Just think about it: God is actually the bad guy and Satan is the unsung hero this whole time
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Well...
-Tried to keep us in ignorance => North Korea with the outside world
-Cult of a personality => Every dictator in existence
-ten plague of Egypt =somewhat=> Jewish genocide
-Strict rules that sometimes don't make sense => Cult/ Dictatorial state
Ya sure it's a "What if" ?
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what if you're anti-skeptic?
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Rebelspecter7 = wuss
Generalizing skeptics and blocking them for shitty reasons, not all skeptics think earth is flat, smartass.
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wow good point...
sometimes i wonder why being a christain is fine but a satanist is so bad (I'm not a satanist myself though) because honestly... looking at the Bible I think God did worse things than Satan...
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God flooded the entire earth, killing everyone except for those on Noah's ark. Every. Single. Living. ThingΒ
Were the animals sinners? Animals cannot understand sin like humans, it's not fair to punish them equally. Plants can't sin at all! But God still drowned them.Β
If God was so powerful (which he must be if he could flood the entire world) Andre actually loved people he would've just automatically made them stop sinning. He wouldn't have killed every living thing in mass genocide like that.Β
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Well... many people say God is evil because he drowned the entire earth, but the reason is right in Genesis 6.
"The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Well... animals are not pure, which make them sinners, so they were drowned. But... they weren't sent to hell because of they don't have moral sense. Also God told Noah to take animals to the Ark. About plants, well, Genesis don't mention plants.
The reason for God don't stop the sin, is because of free-will. Would you like if someone forced to do things you don't want?
He only tell us what to do and what to not do, now if we do or not, is up to us.
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Id rather god forced me not to sin than god killed me and everyone I loved and made us burn in hell for eternityΒ
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Trust me, I once felt what you're feeling now, but after taking a time to question myself, I got the answers.
Have you ever heard of that quote?
"If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours, if they not they never were."
That's how love works. He only warns us, but... we don't listen to him. Β
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Oh? In that case, why he unleashed the ten plague of Egypt when he could have, i don't know...
Reveal himself to the pharaoh ? Tricked him into believing he was Ra ? Negotiate directly instead of causing a proto-genocide ? "He only warn us", right.
And why he flooded the world already ?
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First of all, the pharaoh was a murderous and oppressive dictator. One of his evil deeds was to take many of the Israeli male babies and toss them at the Nile to be eaten, and let's not forget the slavery. The people asked for God to release them and he promised to do it.
Hmmm... isn't it sending Moses which is a very close relative to the pharaoh to ask them to release them already enough? Also he performed a miracle of turning Moses staff into a snake, so the pharaoh would know, he's the God, and the pharaoh just ignored that and as if it wasn't enough, he ordered the hebrews to work harder.
After, Moses warned him to let they go or Egypt will be cursed, and the pharaoh still not listened... "Reveal himself to the pharaoh"... isn't turning one entire river into blood already enough? And the pharaoh still not listened, Moses warned him all the time before the next plagues, and he didn't listened.
I won't even talk about this idea of tricking him... A honest being lying...
Hmmm... because of this:
"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time." And don't forget this: "(...) Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight (...)"
If Noah was a preacher, he warned the people about their evilness, and when God told about the flood, he warned them, but no one listened...
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... so because ONE person did unspeakable evil, god decided to kill the majority of a kingdom, including many innocents, but not the responsible ? Then, during WWII we should have killed all the German, but we should have let Hitler live... Only following your logic.
And yes, it should have been enough, but like you said, the pharaoh was a *******. But also, if I managed, somehow, to turn water into wine, and then I proclaimed I did it thank to the geek god of wine's power, would you believe me ? Wouldn't you defend your religion like... what you're doing right now ? But even so, if someone don't listen to you, and you can either go on a killing rampage, or simply directly talk to him to prove, by the simple fact you're an talking burning plant or an eight winged naked man, don't you think the non-violent route is the right one to take ? And if you don't, ever considered seeing a therapist ?
"I won't even talk about this idea of tricking him... A honest being lying..." ... Sorry, need to hear this again
"I won't even talk about this idea of tricking him... A honest being lying..." ... So... you're telling me... that the one being, that set in stone the absolute rule of "you shall not kill" not long after, decided that HUNDREDTH of lives wasn't more precious than his pride of being "honest" ? Why do you even worship him in that case ?
Β
"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time." So... Instead of even trying to save a world, let's destroy it and rebuild it... ...You know it's a villain trope, right?
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The commandment you mentioned, the original word from Hebrew is "Χ¨Χ¦Χ" (ratzΓ‘kh) which means murder.
The commandment is actually "Thou shalt not murder". And where it says God killed all Egyptians?
Hmmm... what if I tell you, who turned water into wine was Christ actually and not a greek God?
So you're telling me God should have talked to him? Like in the first time Moses and the Pharaoh met and he even perfomed a miracle by turning Moses staff into a snake? Like sending Moses to warn the Pharaoh about the plagues, every time he was going to send one? Isn't this already enough? Ah, and did you know after sending the second plague the Pharaoh said he was going to let the people go if the frogs leave? And after that, no, change my mind, I won't release the people.
See a therapist...
"But also, if I managed, somehow, to turn water into wine, and then I proclaimed I did it thank to the geek god of wine's power, would you believe me?" Yeah, turning a staff into a snake is something very easy and natural that any one can do, very simple! And anyone can literally turn one entire river into blood.
"don't you think the non-violent route is the right one to take?" You mean asking him? But if the Pharaoh didn't listen.
See a therapist...
"So... Instead of even trying to save a world, let's destroy it and rebuild it..."
Do you want to see what is a person to be evil to the point there's no salvation, I see you live in France, when a terrorist attack someone on the streets, try to calm it down with some flowers or talk to him.
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"And where it says God killed all Egyptians?" In the part where he unleash the ten plagues ? And actually, since he nearly killed all of them, this is technically a genocide.
"Hmmm... what if I tell you, who turned water into wine was Christ actually and not a greek God?" I'll say : I took this example precisely because if I was able to do something the son of god did, but pretending I did it thank to the power of another divine being, you would defend your religion... Just like the Egyptian did... Thank you for proving my point.
"So you're telling me God should have talked to him?" Well, that would have been faster, and would have went without any murder.
"Like in the first time Moses and the Pharaoh met and he even perfomed a miracle by turning Moses staff into a snake? Like sending Moses to warn the Pharaoh about the plagues, every time he was going to send one? Isn't this already enough?" ... Those guys were polytheist, and among theirs gods there was one of Chaos... From the point of view of an Egyptian, it's this god who mess with them through Moses... Or they though THEIRS gods would protect them from whatever magic Moses would throw at them. So instead of trick that could pass for magic (because those guys believed in that), you send a fricking Angel, you make him destroy a pyramid or two, and end of the story... Or, YOU TRICK HIM!
"Ah, and did you know after sending the second plague the Pharaoh said he was going to let the people go if the frogs leave? And after that, no, change my mind, I won't release the people." Dick move from the pharaoh, doesn't change the fact that killing thousand of people that had nothing to do with this is an even dickier move.
"See a therapist..." ... Well, maybe you should ; I have seen one for my stress, and it really helped me out... but watch out for the prices...
"Yeah, turning a staff into a snake is something very easy and natural that any one can do, very simple! And anyone can literally turn one entire river into blood." No, but the pharaoh had a magician who tricked people and the pharaoh into thinking he could do the same, but using the power of their gods... Since you're a christian, you would rather listen to Moses. But if you wee the pharaoh, it's in your interest to listen to your magician.
"You mean asking him? But if the Pharaoh didn't listen." True, but isn't god all mighty ? He could have simply make a tree grow in front of the pharaoh, lit it with some thunder, then talk to the fricking pharaoh directly... Or, he could have put his pride aside, and tricked him for the greater good. And before you tell me he's an "honest being", let me introduce you to Isaac. Isaac was nearly killed by his own father, because the said father (Abram) was tricked by god to make sure he was loyal to him... "Honest being" huh ?
"See a therapist..." ... Okay... you're alright man ?
"Do you want to see what is a person to be evil to the point there's no salvation, I see you live in France, when a terrorist attack someone on the streets, try to calm it down with some flowers or talk to him." ... huh friendly advice : don't use that example in that context. Because, what Moses tried to do was to obtain something from the pharaoh by killing thousand of his people with powers given by god, while terrorist (Moses) tries to obtain something from my government (the pharaoh) by killing thousand of french (the people) with powers given by the head of his group (god)... .... .... yeah, we can both agree that Moses wasn't a terrorist, but the comparison is feasible... so, not a smart move to do.
Now then, let's use your example the way you intended : there's four people in a room, a terrorist (the pharaoh), his sister (the Egyptian), a cop (god), and another civil (the jews). the terrorist as a gun on the temper of the civil, ready to kill him. The cop is pointing a gun on the terrorist, asking him to release the civil. Meanwhile, the sister who knew what her brother was doing, but did nothing out of fear, just try to get out of the room. The terrorist don't back down despite the warning of the officer...
The officer shoot his sister... Twice.
The terrorist lower his gun, saying he's gonna release the civil...Β But when he think the cop don't have his guard up, he point his gun trying to kill him.
The cop is faster, and shoot eight time the sister, this time at the face...
The terrorist his crying, the corpse still warm of his sister in his arm... he tell the cop to take the civil and to get out. the cop do so.
He is outside the room when the terrorist, out of rage and sadness, take back his gun and try to shoot the cop. Unfortunately for him, the cop close the door before the bullet reach him.
One guy was responsible for the misery of the jew, at the end he's miserable, but not punished... While his people was slaughtered when they were only partially at fault.
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"defend your religion" XD
You take a miracle from the bible that was performed by Jesus itself to say,Β "what if I performed and say it was another God" but the only book that mention such miracle is the bible, only. "what if I performed..." Ok, so please perform this to me! It's you who is telling I'll support my religion if you perform such miracle, so perform the miracle to prove your point.
I'm beginning to suspect you didn't read what I said before:
"Like in the first time Moses and the Pharaoh met and he even perfomed a miracle by turning Moses staff into a snake? Like sending Moses to warn the Pharaoh about the plagues, every time he was going to send one?"
He did and the pharaoh ignored
Ok, so what about this part here:
"They did this, and when Aaron stretched out his hand with the staff and struck the dust of the ground, gnats came on people and animals. All the dust throughout the land of Egypt became gnats. But when the magicians tried to produce gnats by their secret arts, they could not. Since the gnats were on people and animals everywhere, the magicians said to Pharaoh, βThis is the finger of God.β But Pharaohβs heart was hard and he would not listen, just as the Lord had said." Exodus 8 17-19
"send an Angel, destroy a pyramid" XD as if turn one entire river into blood isn't enough. the magicians said to Pharaoh, βThis is the finger of God.β, so if they still ignored that, it's their fault, not God's fault.
Interesting that no magician could use the powers of their gods, as their gods are so powerful as the God of Moses, to turn the river back into water XD And as I said: "the magician said βThis is the finger of God.β"
Yeah, I know Isaac story. Isaac wasn't killed
""Honest being" huh ?" Isaac wasn't killed.Β
"while terrorist (Moses) tries to obtain something from my government (the pharaoh) by killing thousand of french (the people)" Wait! Moses or God? You told it was God but now you're telling it's Moses?
And there's no text on the Exodus telling how much egyptians died, so how do you know it was the majority?
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.... You do know this is only proving my point further ? Beside, we're both stranger debating on a website so I cannot do a demonstration to you, and a video would be pointless with the actual wonder of special effects. So even if I do so, there's plenty of room for you to claim it fake, and rightfully so.
"I'm beginning to suspect you didn't read what I said before:
"Like in the first time Moses and the Pharaoh met and he even perfomed a miracle by turning Moses staff into a snake? Like sending Moses to warn the Pharaoh about the plagues, every time he was going to send one?"
He did and the pharaoh ignored" Yeah, but would you ignore president like you ignore his diplomat ? Would you ignore an talking tree like you ignore a man ? Would you ignore a being able to erase you from existence with a snap of his finger, like you ignore a man who only predict them ?
"Interesting that no magician could use the powers of their gods, as their gods are so powerful as the God of Moses, to turn the river back into water XD And as I said: "the magician said βThis is the finger of God.β"" Good point... No, seriously ; good point. Here the pharaoh is just being a *************** for no reason. No, you don't want to know what insult I used.
BUT !
"send an Angel, destroy a pyramid" XD as if turn one entire river into blood isn't enough. the magicians said to Pharaoh, βThis is the finger of God.β, so if they still ignored that, it's their fault, not God's fault." This sentence is wrong in many way. First, the pharaoh is the only real opposition, so it's not the Egyptian's fault but the pharaoh, so please use "his" instead of "their". Second, like I stated in my last comparison, it's the pharaoh who's holding the gun against the jew, and it's god who decided to shoot his people instead of the pharaoh himself. If the pharaoh was directly threatened, he wouldn't have reacted the same way. But also, you act like the plague were the only possible way of ending this story. So that mean god couldn't have done anything else. But god is a being capable of doing anything, meaning there was for him another way to free the jew. Like teleporting them to safety for example. But you considering the plague like the only way to free them mean that god is not as powerful as the bible claim him to be. In short, either god is not absolute, either he's not as kind and/or smart as you claim him to be.
Yeah, Isaac wasn't killed. And since he wasn't, that mean god lied. If he was honest when asking Abraham to kill his son... that would have been another innocent victim. And even so, it does not change the fact that lying would have prevented so many death.
""while terrorist (Moses) tries to obtain something from my government (the pharaoh) by killing thousand of french (the people)" Wait! Moses or God? You told it was God but now you're telling it's Moses?" Well, to precise my comparison, Moses would be the one coming to our country to kill people, and god would be the one convince him to do so, who gave him the gun, and who told him haw to proceed. Therefor, Moses isn't innocent, but neither is god. And even if I didn't precise such thought, the comparison is still possible, so be on your guard.
"And there's no text on the Exodus telling how much egyptians died, so how do you know it was the majority?"
Simply my logic and my reflection, as well as the fact that the last plague was the death of all first born. Btw, shouldn't that have affected the pharaoh as well ? Because in this whole story, he should have been the one to be shot down, but god seem to want him to stay alive. And since he was the one who kept saying no, wouldn't that be faster to kill him with a lightning ? Because him outta the way, the Egyptian wouldn't have opposed Moses since : "the magicians said to Pharaoh, βThis is the finger of God.β"
And in that perspective, the number of death would have been very, very smaller.
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Two things I never got when being taught the Bible even as a kid:Β
One, Adam and Eve, in their original state, made in God's image and not having sinned yet, only needed it to be suggested once for them to go and eat the fruit.
Also, there's sending the fallen angels to earth and then putting that tree in the center of the garden in the first place. You're perfect and all-loving, right? Why set people up to fail?
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The God of the Bible is not bad; he is good. He have us plenty of blessings with this beautiful planet, and gave us the faculty of free will so that we are not machines. He is not, but just. He destroys the wicked, for He is like a government, and a government cannot allow the evil to do evil without any consequence. If He really was wicked, He would destroy s humans not for being wicked, but simply due to pleasure. If He was wicked, He would not attempt to punish us only after we de, in an attempt to give us ample chance to repent and be reborn anew. If He was evil, He would not forgive us for all our sins, and love us as if we had done nothing against Him. We all sin, but amongst us He chooses those with less sin to follow Him. Moses killed the Egyptian because He wanted to protect the Hebrew, and he repented later, thus; God did not punish Him for He is forgiving. He punishes those who do evil, to set an example and because He is just. However, all humans have sinned as seen in the Bible, so He measures the amount of evil and goodness in that person. None of the Bible's atrocities youΒ haveΒ included are so, for they are done by gray humans like you and me who crawl between heaven and earth, and because the acts God did were meant to punish evil or acts done against Him for they would indeed lead to evil, and people doubting his existence and using that pretext to do more evil.
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" gave us the faculty of free will so that we are not machines. " In that case, why prohibiting us the fruit of knowledge ? If we have free will, it's not to be puppet clouded by the darkness of ignorance.
"He destroys the wicked, for He is like a government, and a government cannot allow the evil to do evil without any consequence." True, but a government should fear the people, not be feared by them. Or else, it's a dictatorship.
"If He really was wicked, He would destroy s humans not for being wicked, but simply due to pleasure." my, you're too pure for the villain job ; Why kill when you can torture ? That make the pleasure last WAY longer.
"If He was wicked, He would not attempt to punish us only after we de, in an attempt to give us ample chance to repent and be reborn anew."
-Boss ?
-hum ?
-There's this guy, Hitler, who treat Jew like garbage.
-Your point ?
-Shouldn't you punish him ?
-Boaf, that can wait a few years...
"If He was evil, He would not forgive us for all our sins, and love us as if we had done nothing against Him." And what have we done ? Because he on the other hand, did set the example of many, many dictators...
"We all sin, but amongst us He chooses those with less sin to follow Him." ... So extremist suicide-bombers are the least sinners ? Because if I was a just god, this bullshit wouldn't have lasted a week.
"Moses killed the Egyptian because He wanted to protect the Hebrew, and he repented later, thus; God did not punish Him for He is forgiving." Moses was a diplomat, if anything he protected people by telling them how to be protected by the last plague. And god could have simply talked to the pharaoh, or tricked him by impersonating Ra, instead of slaughtering innocents.
"He punishes those who do evil, to set an example and because He is just."
-AND YOU SHALL NOT KILL...
-So why did YOU kill all those Egyptian ?
-Got bored.
"However, all humans have sinned as seen in the Bible, so He measures the amount of evil and goodness in that person."
-Ma'am, I'm afraid your dead-born child is going to hell...
-why...?
-BECAUSE HE HAS SINNED : HE WAS BORN !
(this one was just for the dark joke)
"None of the Bible's atrocities youΒ haveΒ included are so, for they are done by gray humans like you and me who crawl between heaven and earth, and because the acts God did were meant to punish evil or acts done against Him for they would indeed lead to evil, and people doubting his existence and using that pretext to do more evil."
-Boss ?
-Yea ?
-Your people is slaughtering each other in your name.
-Oh shit, the commercials already ended ?
Also, doubting god exist or not don't give you a pretext to do evil... On the other hand : www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3NoDEβ¦
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lol free will alright kiss my so i don't have you burn foreverΒ
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I won't kiss the body parts of any oafish villain. May God help you!
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Is that why he drowned the entire fucking earth for no reason?
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That's not an excuse. He could have just snapped his fingers and erased the sin from people's bodies. Also that's impossible for everyone to be evil at one time.
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Killing people isn't just and fair.
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