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OneWingArt — Element of Empathy
#mlp #mylittlepony #sunset #equestriagirls #sunsetshimmer #friendshipgames #phoenixshimmer #daydreamshimmer
Published: 2015-10-20 20:04:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 7348; Favourites: 268; Downloads: 0
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Description
During the MLP staffers panel at Comic Con this year, a little girl went up to the mic and asked "If Sunset Shimmer had her own element of harmony, what would it be?"Meghan McCarthy, writer of the Equestria Girls movies, decided to answer. She said "I've actually thought about this. And I think Sunset Shimmer would be the Element of Empathy."
I thought that was such an awesome concept that I ended up getting inspired, drawing a messy pencil sketch of Sunset, hair billowing upward, hands open and welcoming, an expression of understanding on her face.
Cut to several months later. Equestria Girls 3: Friendship Games is released, and Sunset Shimmer truly proves herself as the embodiment of empathy in everything but name -- represented beautifully through her transformation in the finale.
And so I dug out that old pencil sketch and decided to give it the full-color treatment, with Sunset donning her new form - this is the result! I hope you like it.
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Comments: 39
Despite what Meghan McCarthy said - and while Empathy is a good Element - I'm not so sure that it's really Sunset's Element. I mean you don't really need empathy to be a good friend, you just need enough sympathy/compassion to be able to comfort your friends when they need it and especially to make sure that you don't appear uncaring towards them. Pony-Twilight wasn't good with empathy in the beginning, and even Pony-Pinkie Pie isn't good with empathy (just look at her actions towards Fluttershy in Filli Vanilli), yet they're both good friends to each other and their other friends.
However I have come up with my own theory behind Sunset's Element though, or at least what she was supposed to become the princess of (and might become in the future): Protection/Defense. She used to be a power-hungry bully, but now she's defensive of those she cares about (even to the point of yelling at anyone who threatens their safety) and is willing to protect them no matter what. This kinda parallels with how Pony-Twilight used to think that friendship wasn't important only to eventually become the Princess of Friendship. Plus a good friend is willing to protect/defend their friends no matter what, which even Fluttershy has been willing to do in the past despite her shy/easily frightened nature.
Because of this I think that future princesses of Equestria have to first experience the opposite of what they're supposed to be the princess of before they can begin to earn their title, so that they can fully know how wrong the opposite view really is. Sunset learned that hurting others to get what she wants only hurts herself even worse in the long run, and Twilight learned that a life without friendship isn't a life at all.
Of course this brings up an interesting point to think about: if my theory really is true, does this mean that Princess Cadance used to not believe in love before learning how powerful it really can be? And when you recall that she was apparently an orphan (since Celestia adopted her)...well, cue the background theories/fanfics.
Though I did look Cadance up and apparently there was a story in the chapter books about how she earned her princess title, but I'm not sure how canon the chapter books are anyway.
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Interesting points! I have to say when I chose the title for my artwork I had no idea it would stir so much controversy, hahah. But it's been fun reading through peoples' thoughts on their choice for Sunset's element.
One thing is for sure: She's a fascinating character that has captured lots of people's imaginations, including my own. ^^
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Heh, well I've been wanting to express my views somewhere and couldn't on the forums since I don't have an account on them. This is better though since I'm not much of a blogger anyway.
Mine too, at least recently. I've been thinking about how her return to Equestria would go, and how she'd react to the pony versions of her friends, how she'd react to Zecora...how she'd react to Discord.... XD
I've also been thinking about her current views on becoming a princess. I think despite her redemption she's still scared of going back down her dark path one day and now rejects the idea of ever becoming a princess in any way or form. She probably even believes that she doesn't deserve the title after what she did to try to get it. However I'm sure that upon finding out about Sunset's fears Celestia and Twilight would reassure her that when she really does deserve to be a princess it'll just happen, with Twilight adding that when she became one the magic that gave her wings came from her heart so the same thing would most-likely happen to Sunset.
I have been thinking of Sunset becoming a princess when she sacrifices herself to save Celestia from an enemy - tying in with Sunset's Cutie Mark as well as my theory about her Element - but I'm not sure about it yet. For one thing I'd have to figure out the enemy, since I don't want to reuse a past one....
I also believe in the theory that Sunburst is Sunset's brother - younger brother in my book - so I've also been thinking about how their reunion would go. I think Sunset was so obsessed with power at the time that she never noticed him at the school and didn't even know that he got his Cutie Mark, and so unintentionally ignored him. This would further justify Sunburst's lack of self-esteem, which was very obvious in The Crystalling. So understandably upon seeing her he'd most-likely tell her off for hurting him and making his life at the school harder, but then would calm down and accept her back after she apologizes and shows that she obviously feels horrible for having hurt him.
And as for Cadance, I was thinking of this background theory: loved her parents only to be abandoned by them due to them not loving her for some reason, and so decided to never love anypony ever again so that she'd never be hurt again. But then something caused her to change her mind...haven't decided on what yet.
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After seeing her transformation in the Friendship Games, I certainly see her as the 7th element
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It'd definitely make sense. Since it sounds like there are many more Equestria Girls to come in the future, I wonder if this will ever come up?
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I think it should be called the element of Forgiveness. That, more than empathy, is an important aspect of friendship. You can forgive someone without empathizing with them.
Also, Sunset only sympathizes with Twilight. Empathy does not require similar experiences in order to understand someone else's experience. But Sunset outright says she's been where Twilight is. That's the definition of sympathy, not empathy. It also fits better with Sunset's inferior Fi (introverted Feeling), which is the sympathy function. The empathy function is Fe (extroverted Feeling), which is Twilight's inferior function. Fe is way at the bottom of Sunset's function stack, so she wouldn't be successful in attempting to use it. She's much better off using her Fi.
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A good point, and nice reference to MBTI functions. Still, it was Meghan McCarthy who said at the panel that she thought Sunset would be the Element of Empathy. Considering she wrote the Equestria Girls movies, she'd know Sunset's heart better than anyone. And honestly I find forgiveness and empathy to be equally important components of friendship - one involves reaching out to understand your friend, the other involves not holding your friend's actions against them.
Just curious; you believe that Sunset has introverted feeling (Fi), what MBTI category would you place her in?
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I have Sunset typed as an ENTJ. Her ambition, leadership and no-nonsense attitude result from a dominant Te, and she has the focus and inspiration of someone who uses Ni, which is her auxiliary. She's still too young to demonstrate much use of her tertiary Se, but we can see her inferior Fi on occasion, as it tends to trip her up when she's trying to balance it with her Te. And as a member of the main EQG cast, she seems to be taking on the same role that Col. Hogan held in Hogan's Heroes; that of an effective and clever leader who has earned the respect and undying loyalty of her/his peers, and even, on occasion, the respect of enemies.
Interestingly, Twilight is Sunset's "mirror." Twilight's functions also run Thinking, iNtuition, Sensing, Feeling, but are oriented in the opposite directions from Sunset's.
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When we first meet her, she shows all the hallmarks of a Te/Se loop. But after her heel-face turn, she displays a much healthier development of her auxiliary Ni. Had she not gotten into that loop, she would have made a more effective princess than Twilight in terms of leadership skills. Sci-Twi will never have the urge to challenge Sunset's role as leader of the Humane Six.
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I agree with your perspective on Sunset and her MBTI type, but your take on Twilight is completely wrong in my opinion. She does not have inferior Fe. She's got inferior Te and is an INFP.
All the functions for that matter are more complicated than you depict them to be. Fe has got a lot more than empathy to do with it. There's a particular manner of looking at the world and acting on the world that goes beyond one word statements. Simply having sympathy is not nearly representative of one's Fi side or empathy as their Fe side. A better sample of one's Fi would be seeing them constantly resort to sympathy even when they don't necessarily have to. Sunset's "I know what you're going through" approach to Twi could easily be performed by an Fe user, even an Fe dom, if they truly felt that they had gone through the same experience. Sadly, we don't have that much to go off of, so the "I know what you're going through" approach for inferior Fi doesn't quite cut it. There are other examples though fortunately. XD
Also, I'm not entirely sure if you're falling into this mental trap (I would guess not by your description of the functions for Sunset), but you may be factoring too much of the type description into your Twilight typing or the commonality of that typing. Twilight as an INTP is a common view that isn't quite right, but better than the INTJ and ISTJ common typings. The issue though as far as I see it with Twi being an INTP is that she's far too flakey, emotionally open to outside strangers without trying to be, and overall self-absorbed in her own emotions without any necessary reason to be. INTPs can have all those traits, most especially the flakey-ness, but all of them together could only really exist for an INTP if there was a cause or reasoning. The Ti approach to life is very cold in a logical way not a factual way and folks with that as their dominant would be far far less comfortable being that outwardly open with their emotions, especially on accident. INFPs on the other hand can be very cold or very warm on the outside and it's typically reflective of their mood. Most INFPs aren't especially good at tucking away their feelings from others and many, despite all the sensitivity and nervousness they feel towards their emotions being on the outside, tend to walk off that embarrassment easier than if an INTP were to do the same thing. That's a teensy yet significant reason of why I believe Twilight is an INFP, despite most folks critically overlooking it.
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That is an interesting perspective. But I have to respectfully disagree, as I myself am an INFP and am thus quite familiar with the traits of dominant Fi. For me, the biggest indicator that Twilight uses Ti rather than Fi is that she lacks a clear purpose or identity at first, despite being at a stage of maturity where her purpose and identity should be very clear to her. Purpose and identity are the two biggest hallmarks of the Fi-dom, and the INFP in particular. We are the ultimate Idealists. Twilight at first is not pursuing any particular ideal, other than to be as proficient a magician as Starswirl the Bearded. While Ti and Fi can look quite similar on the surface (resulting in many INFPs mistyping as INTPs), they are fundamentally different in their respective drives. Ti wants to know the how. Fi wants to know the why. Twilight is a how pony, not a why pony. When presented with an assignment that says, "Make some friends," the Fi-dom would immediately want to know precisely why she has to make friends. What purpose does this assignment serve? The Ti-dom, by contrast, quickly analyzes the practicality and necessity of friends, and opts to dismiss the assignment. There is no point to friendship, especially in the current context, so why should she allow herself to be distracted by something that does not interest her?
Since Twilight is leading with a Thinking function when we first meet her, one could make the argument that she is stuck in a Te grip. But were that the case, she would be aggressive in her approach, much like Luna before and immediately after her fall, or like Zuko in the first season of ATLA. Personally, I don't see Twilight exhibiting an improper use of her functions. At least, not in any significant amount.
Also, please bear in mind that not all Thinkers are cold, aloof or "unfeeling." All Thinkers prefer to maintain control over their emotions, but that doesn't mean they're afraid to show them. Nor is Twilight particularly open with her emotions at first. She expresses anguish in private, with Spike as her only confidant. The inverse is also true; Feelers may not like wearing their emotions on their sleeves. Fe-doms in particular prefer emotional stability. They like to feel, but they also like to call the shots. Fi-doms can learn to seem very stoic in public, and are quite good at putting on masks (which is a bit hypocritical on our part, considering Fi-doms HATE it when other people wear masks around them). Thomas Jefferson, for instance. I have him typed as an INFP because of the type of idealism he seemed to exhibit (his Broadway counterpart is VERY ESFP, which no doubt would drive him bonkers). Most MBTI enthusiasts agree that he was a Feeler (most type him as an INFJ, but I just don't see the Ni). Yet in public, he had almost as tight a rein on his emotions as Washington himself. Until he met Alexander Hamilton, that is.
Now, a character whom many fans type as an INTP, but whom I believe to be an INFP? Hiccup.
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Interesting counter with a lot to cover. Also, I feel I may have miscommunicated a couple things in my last message. For the record, I also am an INFP.
On the topic of purpose and identity, I feel you are not being entirely fair to INFPs. If anything, I'd say she had more of a clear purpose or identity at the beginning. The ideal of being a proficient magician and the identity of being Celestia's student was what she had. It was very small mind you, but I think that has more to do with her profound luck or conversely profound unluck. As an INFP myself, I have many more ideals and concrete identities for myself, but part of the reason why is because I didn't get what Twi got. Early in her life, something struck her profoundly (magic) and with as abundant internal almost endless system. Twilight from a very early age was inspired to study magic from the Raising of the Sun festival and then shortly after got accepted for a magic school test and then Celestia's student. Then within the field of magic, Twilight found more than enough stuff to learn about. It'd be the equivalent of an anime loving INFP at an early age being put in a formal role that allowed them to engage in their anime love constantly. The result could very easily be the INFP gorging themselves on that one ideal and not exploring other avenues themselves. I myself have done that a lot, but I ultimately explored something else because I got bored. But if I were to add a school atmosphere to one of my favorite ideals, then maybe things would have turned out differently. I, like Twilight, am a teacher pleaser. Also, when I put my mind to finding enjoyment or interest in something, like say obscure conventionally described "mediocre" cultures, I usually find the interest. For instance, just recently I found a lot of interest in Scythians from history due to an overly complicated preference on my part to find more favorites in Civilization 6. With the right system in place and a profoundly adored ideal, the INFP usually can become complacent and uninterested in exploration. This is actually one of our weaknesses as a type, that we go through an Fi Si loop and fail to exercise our extroverted intuition function. I believe this happened for Twilight and hence why I previously said that she had "profound luck or conversely profound unluck." She found a system in an ideal she loved, but it nullified her drive for exploration.
Personally, one of the reasons I feel you are being unfair to INFPs is in that I am somewhat jealous of Twilight myself. Despite how unhealthy it might be, following one ideal so persistently also sounds somewhat appealing and I think that INFPs that are able to achieve can still easily qualify as INFPs.
As to your point about the how and the why, I feel you're underestimating one factor and overestimating another.
First, INFPs and INTPs can easily be interested in the other type's respective drives. I, myself, am intimately interested in the how of history. I love finding out how one thing lead to another and so on. I think the key here is less that they have the drive and more how they interact with the drive. I am interested in the how of history, because I'm just a generally intellectually curious person. Many INFPs are this way. I don't want to know the how to devise some system of looking at the world. Rather, I just want to know more and there's not much else to it. I find it mentally stimulating and thereby emotionally satisfying. For INTPs though, their how drive may easily exist specifically to devise a system of looking at the world. Or.. maybe they're doing it for the same reason of "it's mentally stimulating," but they more actively try to piece the how into their own Ti system. On the opposite end of things, INTPs and TPs in general can be very interested in the why for specifically the reason you mentioned, the "practicality and necessity" of the thing in question. For example, if someone's reason for wanting an INTP to do something is "stupid" in the INTP's estimation, than it might signal low practicality and necessity. Or maybe an INTP wants to know the why specifically because they find the desired task impractical and unnecessary.
Second, Twilight doesn't necessarily engage in the how as much as you say she does. I'm not even that sure she engaged in the how when dismissing Celestia's "make some friends" task as you implied. More of what I think happened was that Twilight simply didn't care to make friends (but rather cared to stop Nightmare Moon) and thought that if she could somehow prove to Celestia that she waned off Nightmare Moon's return then Celestia would just forget about the whole "friendship" task. Just to double check, I went to the transcript and it says the following...
Spike: Look on the bright side, Twilight. The Princess arranged for you to stay in a library. Doesn't that make you happy?
Twilight Sparkle: Yes, yes it does. You know why? Because I'm right! I'll check on the preparations as fast as I can, then get to the library to find some proof of Nightmare Moon's return.
Spike: Then... when will you make friends, like the Princess said?
Twilight Sparkle: She said to check on preparations. I am her student, and I'll do my royal duty, but the fate of Equestria does not rest on me making friends.
To me, this sounded more like Twilight was finding a loophole and had an ego about her that she was right. My view that she didn't care to make friends, but more so to stop Nightmare Moon and somehow change Celestia's mind is a theory based off my perception that she was merely looking for a loophole and had an ego about her.
As for my general point, Twilight seems more attached to the idea of learning all sorts of information and not specifically the how. One area, where you might cite her how also could be The Crystal Empire. And to be preemptive, I believe Twilight's issue there wasn't just "not knowing how," but not having confidence in herself about it. Prior to that point, all of her conflicts seemed to be resolved with her friends' help. So, the thought of doing it alone easily could have been stressful.
Moving onward to your point about Twilight using a thinking function, I'm not sure I really view the thinking and feeling functions the same as you. I would say that Twilight was thinking when we first met her. I don't believe though that doing so necessarily means she was leading with a thinking function. The sentiment you just described however is I think one of the precise reasons INFPs mistake themselves for INTPs. It isn't because they mix up Fi and TI as you mentioned. Rather, I think it's because INFPs generally are very well-read and most view themselves as either "well-read" or "thoughtful." The simple act of feeling and thinking aren't necessarily related to Fi or Ti. Fi is a mental process that prefers making decisions based on personal tastes and personal discovery. Ti is a mental process that prefers decisions based on a personal logic system. Personality junkie sums it up pretty well. "Introverted Thinking (Ti) produces highly personalized methods or strategies. Whereas Ti is concerned with developing personalized methods, Introverted Feeling (Fi) has more to do with individual tastes, affections, and causes." In the beginning of the MLP:FiM, all Twilight was doing was really thinking. She wasn't engaging in this specific Ti process. And in fact, as an INFP myself, I feel I can relate to Twilight a lot just in being a thinking thoughtful person. That's my take anyway.
Your last paragraph is where I feel things were miscommunicated. I tried to actually stay clear away from that stereotype that "all Thinkers are cold, aloof or 'unfeeling.'" There were three characteristics I identified I felt Twilight had that ruled out the INTP personality, those being "too flakey, emotionally open to outside strangers without trying to be, and overall self-absorbed in her own emotions without any necessary reason to be." I then clarified that "INTPs can have all those traits, most especially the flakey-ness, but all of them together could only really exist for an INTP if there was a cause or reasoning." Still, I could have done better. Let's take out flakeyness, because I've already conceded that the trait in of itself doesn't rule out the type. My second mentioned trait is probably where confusion started. What I meant was that Twilight's emotions get leaked on the outside as if on accident. I wouldn't say that she was nearly as controlled as you think. Yes, she wasn't open, but that's not the same thing as being controlled.
For evidence look at this video, www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhW1Ym… , at times 5:37-5:52, 6:30-7:20, and 9:29. These are just moments where I feel that an INTP would be particular capable of having not happen. It's not even remote emotion control in these moments and it doesn't seem like your average inferior Fe moments. Going back to one of my last paragraphs, I could easily classify these moments into the "affections" portion of the introverted feeling description. These aren't forced out explosive negative emotions, which is typically described for inferior Fe users. The first is just her being happy and not bothering to control her affection from the past in a public place. The second is her joy of mystery getting the better of her. The third is this long drawn out worry. True, that pacing was more instantaneous, but the previous instance of her pacing was exactly as I described long and drawn out. These rather just seem like an Fi user either letting their affections get the better of them or the putting down the mask in their home allowing for a long period of outward negative emotion expression. If Twilight were a Ti dominant, I really feel these clear moments sloppy emotion control wouldn't happen. You were right that "All Thinkers prefer to maintain control over their emotions, but that doesn't mean they're afraid to show them." However, introverted thinkers most certainly have a clear desire not to show accidentally show off emotion to strangers. Compare this to that of an INFP, where many, myself included, strive to be stoic when we're uncomfortable to express emotion, but our general philosophy of focusing on our "individual tastes, affections, and causes" results in us *accidentally* releasing them to strangers. The key wording here is "accidentally." The possibility of this happening for introverted thinkers of accidentally letting their emotions loose in front of strangers is very low.
Also, pay heed to the second part of the S1 opener (which I can't find). Twilight's emotions are let out really easily to the mane6. Yes, the mane6 followed her. But she was letting those emotions out when she thought no one was in the room. Why on earth would a dominant introverted thinker even care to do that? What would be the point behind letting their emotions loose, something they don't necessarily *like* doing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that they are afraid to let out their emotions. I'm saying they simply don't have that preference to let out their emotions for no other reason than to let them out. INTPs especially tend to be very tactical with emotion expression, choosing the absolute best times to express as you said in private company. INFPs are the ones who more or less simply like letting out their personal thoughts even when there is no clear goal other than catharsis. And INTPs would likely not go for the simple catharsis of letting emotions out by themselves. Wouldn't emoting to another person seem more practical and beneficial? I mean maybe one could do that. I just feel the possibilities become smaller and smaller the more of these scenarios that exist. I only pulled several and from the early part of the series no less.
Anywho, let me get back to the point about Twilight being "overall self-absorbed in her own emotions without any necessary reason to be." We see her really it with her emotions constantly delving into her personal affections on books and whatever else in her library. Why would an INTP be so flamboyant and outward with their personal tastes when there is no reason to be. Again, it seems to be like Twilight is just doing so for the sake of doing so. She likes to focus on her personal tastes and so she does. This would also explain how she missed something as basic as her only Celestia task in Lesson Zero. She was involved in her own personal affections, albeit books and needless chemistry like in Gryphon the Brush Off.
And yes, she and Spike were going off her lists and her list taking as a whole does suggest an abnormal reliance on Te. However, several things seem off here and there are some easy explanations. If she was so involved in her list making, how did she forget her arguably biggest and only assignment from Celestia. That seems fish-y to me and I feel the answer is that her list making isn't as organized as it appears to be. I believe Twilight uses her Te in a similar way to my own Te use. It's a de-stressor. The inferior function can and is recommended on several cites as a means to take a break from one's normal preference if they are being too overwhelmed. For instance, when I'm stressed, I use my Te to jot down basic chores and do them. It get's me out of my work ruts and it's soothing. That's what I believe Twilight does when lists are involved. She joyfully goes through the list as a de-stressor, but similar to me, she can forget some things on it. After all, the Te is only being used as a de-stressor and we INFPs aren't terribly amazing at it. Sometimes I'll just not do a daily task, because I'm not "feeling up to it."
Furthermore, I see no signs of her doing the Ti equivalent of focusing on her personalized methods and strategies, let alone strategies for controlling her affections. If you do see these moments, I really want to know what they are. I just can't find them myself.
As for Thomas Jefferson, I haven't taken much of a look at his type very critically. I've gone off the common typing so far that he's an INFJ, but for all I know you could be right. As for Hiccup, I'm really torn and I lean on INTP oddly enough. I'd be open to talking about it after this Twilight discussion though.
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This is quite stimulating discussion, but I fear we're bogging down another artist's comment section. Perhaps we should take this over to Personality Cafe.
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Good thinking. My username there is EquestrianHistorian. Please send me your thoughts and I'll get back to ya.
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Sure you can get a nice comment on this...if you're done ignoring me.
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I consider her status as a seventh element bearer all but canon at this point.
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May I please post this to my Sunset Shimmer tumblr page (w/ source)? svnsetshimmer.tumblr.com/
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I’ve always thought if there was a 7th Element of Harmony it would the Element of Inspiration. Witch actually kind of fits to when you think about it. The Elements of Harmony helped inspire Twilight to learn about friendship. Twilight helped to inspire Sunset. And now Sunset has helped to inspire Human Twilight.
The Element of Inspiration also holds meaning when you apply it to the fandom to. This show helped inspire people to be more open-minded about “feminine entertainment”. It’s inspired much creativity like fan fiction, art, music, and even animation. It’s also inspired/reminded people to simply be better people with its morals.
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I like that. Also, if I remember correctly, I think Lauren Faust said she originally wanted Inspiration to be Rarity's element. Personally I still think that fits her better than Generosity; I love Rarity because I can relate to her creative spirit. But I can see it suiting Sunset as well - and certainly the fandom!!
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Well, yeah, that’s also one of the reasons why. I thought since they didn’t use it as one of the original 6 elements, they could use it as a 7th unknown element.
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I'm glad you like it! I was experimenting whether I wanted to go more anime or stick with the Equestria Girls style and kind of came up with my own thing hehe
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Sunset Shimmer: Princess of Empathy
not bad. was thinking more of forgiveness or redemption but I like empathy as well
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Hehe. When Meghan McCarthy suggested it at the comic-con panel, it just really resonated with me. And then in the 3rd movie Sunset really seemed to empathize with human-Twilight's struggles. Forgiveness and redemption both tie in to it as well ^^
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kinda makes me think of her as the princess helping the humans
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Hehe yeah, she really did display lots of princess-like qualities in the last movie. ^^
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I like the theory that that music video was her asending into prinsess
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