Comments: 139
GlizzySparks [2016-03-13 16:30:50 +0000 UTC]
Interesting, thanks for the tips. Well at froster I thought that the protagonist is always a good guy. But eventually I learned that the protagonist isn't always a hero. And villains aren't always the villian. Some protagonista are the VILLIAN while some antagonists are the HERO.
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GlizzySparks In reply to OokamiKasumi [2016-03-14 22:34:52 +0000 UTC]
This should be helpful. I enjoy reading your tips. I will use what I learn to write my fanfics^^
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OokamiKasumi In reply to GlizzySparks [2016-03-26 14:56:14 +0000 UTC]
Watch how your readers respond to the characters too. They will be your best guide to see if what your trying to do works the way you want it too.
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IndigoOfTheHeavens [2014-03-27 07:46:31 +0000 UTC]
Looks like I have this set up then LOL:
Proponent Villan
Adversary Hero
Ally Hero
xD
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Jedi-Qui-Gon [2014-01-10 18:52:01 +0000 UTC]
This is helpful.
Is it possible to do a story and not have an ally character, like a story about an event where the hero fights the villain? I know it’s very likely one might sneak in to help the story along.
And I am wondering if this would be an example of an ally character- someone who is badly injured and half dead collapses at the Hidden Leaf village gate, and is taken to the Hidden Leaf hospital. And the person speaks of some evil force attacking and destroying the town he was in. And a ninja team is sent to investigate. Would he be an ally character since he told of what happened and might know what the enemy looked like, even if it’s just fragments of details?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Jedi-Qui-Gon [2014-01-12 08:48:19 +0000 UTC]
The Ally is simply the 'Other' character in any character grouping.
-- When Sakura and Naruto argue, anyone else that happens to be there is an Ally.
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therebeunicorns [2013-12-23 19:02:01 +0000 UTC]
Sorry to be a bother with another question...but you are so helpful and my question is really bugging me.
Can a character change their purpose by the end of the story? I'll try to explain. (Unless I'm going at this back-asswards.)
The problem with stories is that as they progress from the beginning to the end, things shift. Just like normal people, characters CAN and DO change; from protagonist to antagonist, to ally. A character that starts out as a hero could easily become a villain by the end of the story. "
Ahhhh I found this quote reading the comments after writing this...it answered my original question--- yet gave me another.
Basically, instead of a redemption plot, I'm doing a corruption plot. I think The Godfather had a corruption plotline (or, according to James Scott Bell, a rise to Power plotline) but I haven't read it to be sure.
My character starts out as an Adversary VP Heroine, but ends as a Proponent VP Villian.
My question is...is it okay for readers to hate your VP character? Perhaps if they are fascinated in some way? If it's not okay, how do you ensure they don't hate a VP character that makes "wrong" choices? My plan was to fill it with realism that made her journey fascinating to watch, to the point that readers could empathize and see themselves making the bad choices. (!)
I promise I'll lay off the questions now...at least for awhile. > Thank you again for your tutorials and replies...I'm learning more from you than any writing book I've read, really.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to therebeunicorns [2013-12-25 22:00:21 +0000 UTC]
...is it okay for readers to hate your VP character?
-- It CAN be done, and in fact, Has been done, but it's tricky to pull off because if a reader hates the characters, they're very likely to put the story down, and never go back. (I've done it myself.)
This is why you hear so many of us authors telling people to write Sympathetic viewpoint characters -- characters the readers can identify with. "Oh, I've been in that situation too..." If the VP character is Sympathetic; easy for the reader to identify with, you can pretty much get away with them doing anything -- including murder.
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DecepticonFlamewar [2012-12-30 10:12:47 +0000 UTC]
I wish I were still in college so I could spam my professors with this link.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to DecepticonFlamewar [2013-02-18 10:40:39 +0000 UTC]
Very few college professors like me. I make learning this stuff too easy.
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AsjJohnson [2012-12-02 21:43:00 +0000 UTC]
Can the pov character be the main character and protagonist of a story?
I just write fanfiction, but the one I'm working on now, If I use your definitions... Then I think the character the story's about (who is a villain and antagonist in the series) would start out as the protagonist (because something happens and he wants it back to normal) and then switch to the antagonist (because by the end, he'll realize he might like it the other way). Though... I suppose it'd be more like, things change, and he wants to change them back, so that might make him the antagonist at first, because he wants it to change from how it is, then he'll kind of get used to it and be more like a protagonist, though he still thinks he wants it to change back, and then it'll eventually change back (from something he does) and then he'd be the antagonist because he'll realize he kind of liked it how it was then. But also, originally he was the villain (and is in the prologue of my fic), and then he'll kind of be... like the ally maybe? Because he doesn't really want to do anything? Though I think he might help out some without meaning to. And then eventually he'll help because he wants to, so that'd be more like a hero. ...or maybe I'm just getting really mixed up.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to AsjJohnson [2012-12-04 03:28:19 +0000 UTC]
Can the pov character be the main character and protagonist of a story?
Short answer: YES.
-- The POV character is "the Person Telling the Story."
-- The Main Character is "Who the Story is About."
-- The Protagonist is "the One fighting to Preserve the Status Quo."
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mgscreative [2012-11-04 13:18:05 +0000 UTC]
your writing tips are absolutely fantastic; ive literally been reading through all of them (great procrastination for my own writing, hehe)
your information is actually SO USEFUL!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to mgscreative [2012-11-04 15:20:28 +0000 UTC]
Err, aren't tips supposed to be useful?
-- I'm glad you like them.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to mgscreative [2012-11-05 00:56:37 +0000 UTC]
This makes me wonder; then why did they bother to write them?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to ThePoorCornelia [2012-10-27 09:26:24 +0000 UTC]
My pleasure.
-- Glad I could provide a bit of useful insight.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to gianjos [2012-08-20 02:22:07 +0000 UTC]
Really? I haven't seen 'Enchanted' yet, but I have seen 'Tangled'. I'm going out to see 'Brave' tomorrow!
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gianjos In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-08-20 13:13:51 +0000 UTC]
Yes, like I said, she 'kind of' ; P
*SPOILER* (I don't know if you care about that, but this is a SPOILER.. so.. ^^)
well, he saves her too, and there is the true love kiss that wakes her up. but she is the one who defeats the 'dragon' later (it was even mentioned as a joke). The whole movie is a mist of parody and tribute to old pincesses disney movies. It's a nice movie, you should watch it later.
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YFanGirl1613 [2012-07-09 12:36:03 +0000 UTC]
Artemis Fowl series. One problem is that Opal does rise again but then crashes and burns. Although I'm not too sure that Artemis learnt too many lessons either in the second book or first book.
Apart from recommending that book to you and plugging it (sort of) I enjoyed reading this since it does define what is who and most things in between and gave some good examples as well.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to YFanGirl1613 [2012-07-29 16:34:44 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked it!
-- Actually I do have the first volume of Fowl on my bookshelf. He is very much a Reluctant Hero, as in he thinks he's a villain, but it just doesn't work out that way for him.
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YFanGirl1613 In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-08-03 12:03:28 +0000 UTC]
That is true and by the end he becomes a heroish person? His morals are slight off but a hero by...the author.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Rayame [2012-06-19 03:06:06 +0000 UTC]
My pleasure. I live being inspiring!
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SheTheTDE [2012-06-11 10:08:32 +0000 UTC]
ok this will sound confusing at first but I need to know if it's possible to make it work...
I'm trying to write a story where the character that seems to be the main character isn't and the real main characters are completely unaware of the horrible things happening for most of the story. Is there a way to make that work that doesn't confuse the reader too much?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to SheTheTDE [2012-06-11 18:29:03 +0000 UTC]
Your POV (Point of View) character (the one telling the story) is Always the main character, but that does Not necessarily make them who the story is about.
I'm trying to write a story where ... the real main characters are completely unaware of the horrible things happening for most of the story. Is there a way to make that work that doesn't confuse the reader too much?
Point of View is how you do this.
-- Write the story from the point of view of someone that knows what's going on and provide a good reason why the other characters Won't Believe Them when your POV character tries to warn them.
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SheTheTDE In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-06-12 07:59:52 +0000 UTC]
Oh thank you. That makes perfect sense, thank you.
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Tori5 [2012-02-16 08:57:59 +0000 UTC]
Uuuh, my head hurts a bit. A little too much to digest in a short time, but I'll try to mull over it and hopefully I'll get it sooner or later (sorry, but your article managed to make me confused about who is actually a protagonist, hero, villain and so on).
But anyway, I have a question. You stated I need only three characters to make a story - Antagonist, Protagonist and Ally. This may sound a bit silly, but has each of them come in only a single number? I know that having two protagonists in a story probably isn't very real (one will probably become ally sooner or later) but what about having two or more allies? Or maybe more antagonists? Is it unreal, or is there a way around it?
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luka1184 In reply to Tori5 [2018-02-21 23:28:23 +0000 UTC]
I believe Deltora Quest is a perfect example of three main characters who have enough screentime each to not call any of them allies to the main hero. Arguably there is a main hero, Lief, but Jasmine and Barda practically gets just as much time, action, anything.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Tori5 [2012-02-16 20:56:01 +0000 UTC]
My tutorials do tend to cover a LOT of information, but then I try not to leave anything important out.
The Protagonist is the one who faces the Antagonist. That does not change.
However, the Villain can be either one; the Protagonist who fights to keep things the way they are, or the Antagonist who fights to change things.
For example, the Sheriff of Nottingham is a Protagonist. He likes the way he has control over his town. However, he is also clearly a Villain.
Robin Hood, an obvious hero, wants to change the way the people are governed. That makes him an Antagonist.
Maid Marion, and all of Robin Hood's Merry Men are Robin Hood's Allies.
The Sheriff's soldiers are the Sheriff's Allies.
King John of England is a Protagonist. He likes his kingdom the way it is, and doesn't want any changes, but he's also a Villain. When he stepped into the story, he became the main Antagonist and Villain with the Sheriff of Nottingham and the Sheriff's soldiers as is his Allies.
Just to make things complicated, most older stories are NOT told by the protagonist, but by an Ally. How can you tell? The one telling the story is Not the one who faces the Antagonist, someone else does. That some else is the Protagonist.
As an example...
-- Robin Hood's story is told from Will the Red's point of view. Will does not ever face the Sheriff or King John. Will the Red is an Ally -- Robin Hood's Ally.
Get it now?
You can have as many protagonists or antagonists as you like in a story. However, since they are Main Characters, each of their stories must be told to their conclusions before the story ends. Any main character whose story does Not reach a conclusion leaves a Plot Hole that your readers will spot.
This is why I advise keeping the character count as low as possible, to prevent the writer from making a story far too large for them to ever finish.
As an example of more than one protagonist...
-- Star Wars had 3 major Protagonists: Luke, Leah, and Han Solo, and 3 main villains: Darth Vader, the Emperor, and (in the first movie) Grand Moff Tarkin. It took 6 whole movies to conclude ALL of their stories.
Leia was the focus of the first movie, Han Solo the focus of the second, Luke the focus of the third, Darth Vader the focus of the fourth, and the emperor the focus of the fifth with the sixth movie tying up everything else.
Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter had even more main characters, which is why they took so many movies (and books) to conclude, and why each was so long. Even so, things were left out of the movies that happened in the books because there just wasn't enough movie-time for it all.
I never said that you CAN'T have more than one Protagonist, Antagonist or Ally. I said that any story can be told with only one of each, though it won't have many scenes.
For example, Star Wars COULD be told using only Darth Vader, (Villian - Protagonist) Luke, (Hero - Antagonist) and Obi Wan Kenobi, (Ally). It will lack a whole pile of scenes that feature the other characters, but Luke's rise to Jedi Knight, Obi Wan's death, and his discovery of his father -- which is the entirety of Luke's story -- can all be told with just those three characters.
Okay?
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Tori5 In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-02-16 22:19:59 +0000 UTC]
Ah, I think I'm getting it slowly. So just being Protagonist doesn't make you automatically Hero, and being Antagonist doesn't make you automatically Villain. Protagonist is just someone who keeps things the old way, while Antagonist thrives for a change.
... this actually leads to an interesting thing. I remember you stated in one of your works here that when Hero confronts Villain, the one who will lose is the one who fails to adapt to a new situation, or to move on or how did you define it. Is that somehow related to being Protagonist/Antagonist Villain/Hero, or can it happen to anybody?
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Tori5 [2012-02-17 01:10:27 +0000 UTC]
So just being Protagonist doesn't make you automatically Hero, and being Antagonist doesn't make you automatically Villain.
You got it!
Protagonist is just someone who keeps things the old way, while Antagonist thrives for a change.
Yep, that's right!
...when Hero confronts Villain, the one who will lose is the one who fails to adapt to a new situation, or to move on...
That works.
Is that somehow related to being protagonist / Antagonist, Villain / Hero, or can it happen to anybody?
It's normally a Villain / Hero thing, (protagonist & antagonist are interchangeable, each can be either one, so they don't count.) However, it CAN happen to any character at any time in the story -- and more than once.
The key point here, is that Battles aren't the only places Villains can Lose, and the Loser isn't always a Villain.
A guy that can't get the girl he loves to love him back, lost in his relationship, but he's not necessarily a Villain.
The problem with stories is that as they progress from the beginning to the end, things shift. Just like normal people, characters CAN and DO change; from protagonist to antagonist, to ally. A character that starts out as a hero could easily become a villain by the end of the story.
It all depends on you, the WRITER and what you decide you want your characters to be.
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Strudel--Cutie4427 [2012-01-26 07:49:38 +0000 UTC]
That's some pretty good ideas. It's actually rather helpful and has caused me to rethink some of my stories.
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TheNakedKing [2012-01-16 04:13:47 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad for this. When I write, I don't tend to have the Point of View character be the Protagonist. I have my reasons, of course.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to TheNakedKing [2012-01-16 13:09:25 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked it.
-- It's actually traditional for the POV character to NOT be the protagonist, but the witness to the struggle between the proponent and their adversary.
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TheNakedKing In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-01-16 16:45:44 +0000 UTC]
Yes, I know, but too many people think that the protagonist has to be the PoV character. It's how I see a lot of writer's write. In fact, most of the modern novels I've read have been this way, with the narrator as the protagonist, regardless of whether or not it's third or first person.
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