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poly-m — Tevinter Heartbreakers
Published: 2015-02-18 21:11:01 +0000 UTC; Views: 6569; Favourites: 119; Downloads: 7
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Description
's cute innocent inquisitor Leanna Trevelyan - who joined the new Misadventuring Inquisitors - isn't lucky in her love life (yet!).Related content
Comments: 109
There is nothing wrong about someone being gay or transgender, and its not suggesting anything is wrong with it in this comic,
There is nothing insulting about being surprised that someone is not the gender you expected them to be. Its not suggesting her inquisitor was disgusted or angered by it, which would be a real issue in need of addressing, and likely in need of being taken down. because it it was, I would think that is a hate crime.
However; Everyone has the right to a gender preference in those who they'd in a partner; to suggest otherwise would also by suggest that the fact that Dorian's gender preference for males is not right and that he should be interested in both sexes. That idea is wrong. He's gay, and that is who his character is, and so you cannot hate on a female for expressing there own gender preference to be in males too. Otherwise you're being hippocratic. Specifically, some women and some men, like penis. Some like vagina. Some like boobs. Some like pectorals. Some don't care in the slightest. But that is their preference and no one has the right to judge, and so nobody has the right to be angry is someone, for being surprised that someone may be be as the believed they were, especially if there are maybe lead to believe otherwise. They are not being insulting, quite the opposite. The believe that someone should be interested in what ever you are is and insulting and egotistical idea, however you classify yourself and/or your own preferences. Everyone should be able to be friends with anyone no matter race, gender, or religion; yes. But who they are sexually attracted to is absolutely no one else business but theirs and the partners that are within their preferences.
So expressing shock because she is in fact surprised because Poly-m's inquisitor believed the partner they'd wished to enter into a sexual relationship with is not in fact within there sexual preferences shouldn't be a topic of debate, because it is an arrogant idea that everyone should be sexually attracted to everyone. Most people have some kind of preference, even as small as whether someone shaves there genitalia or not.
To suggest that preference is something you have a right to comment on is what got the world into the mess of believing that it should be able to dictate it.
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That is too true.
Also, I was not aware that was Krem.
Yeah, but I think this would be a good thing. I mean, Krem is for all things and belief a man. So, if people think, act and treat Krem like he's a man, then that's good. Although, if he's attracted to women, he'll need to be upfront about it.
But I support that.
Sometimes it's not about sex even, you can fall in love with the person, wether they were male or female.
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I agree It doesn't matter if you are transsexual, bi, asexual, pan sexual, homosexual, or straight! What matters is that you be yourself!
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When I read some of these comments here, I had to wonder what an incredible fuss some make out of a simple humorous comic. To me it seems that they do not understand the meaning of parody.
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Characters dont act 100% how they would in a parody comic? Outrageous! Next you'll try selling people on the idea that bad things happen in a tragedy, or characters go out and have adventures in an adventure genre storyline.
You can fool a few folks, you trixy trickster, but im on to you and your properly following the methods of telling a parody story, buster!
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That is a good point, and I'll admit my own uncomfortableness about the comic is mostly my own sense of humour. I just hate when comment wars happen, and I've seen enough artists get shat on for misunderstandings.
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I think the comments on this piece should be called 'disproportionate retribution for all'.
On one hand calling homophobic and transphobic for what could be an uncomfortable joke is a bit extreme, and I say this the unintentional butt of many jokes. Bar this one piece the artist hasn't done anything that could be seen as truly offensive. On the other hand the joke is a bit of a misfire; Krem wouldn't go that far with someone and not tell the person he's transgender. Both sides have a point, both.
Is the joke in poor taste, yea a bit.
Are Krem and Dorian meant to be the butts of the joke, no that would be PC. The one who seems to only be interested in romances and reacts poorly to expectations not being met.
I don't believe a single comic should be enough to juitify labelling the artist as a terrible person. Comedy and Parody are things that are highly subjective and go wrong easily. I find the comic awakard and in poor taste, but sheer reactionary levels reached here and in tumblr are pretty bad.
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It honestly surprises me that you haven't taken this comic down yet, even after all the negative feedback and all these people telling you this is offensive.
You are making a joke of an already marginalized group of people and I honestly thought you were better than this.
Dorian would never express his sexuality so openly like this and this is a very important aspect of his character, you are portraying him as shallow and like his sexuality is the only thing that matters about him.
Krem would never try to bed anyone without informing them of the fact that the body he was born with doesn't correspond with his gender, if you interact with him ingame you know he doesn't make a big secret of being transgender, so him not telling this fact to someone he intends to sleep with makes absolutely no sense at all.
I really hope you will properly think about why this is offensive so you can learn from it and not make the same mistakes in the future.
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Poly-m, I have been following you for a long time and have always loved you and your art style. I especially am a fan of your Mass Effect works! Seriously, huge fan here!
So I want you to know that I say this with the utmost respect cordiality...this comic is...it's insensitive towards a marginalized group. Making transexuality a punchline is uncool, man. I know that your knee-jerk reaction to the people being rude to you saying this is to fight back, but I want you to really think about this. It could be genuinely hurtful to someone who identifies as transgender.
I don't think you're a terrible person. And I know that you just made this to make some people laugh. That's the kind of person you are! Please, be considerate though, and perhaps consider taking this comic down.
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Hey there and thanks for your both support over the years, and being polite right now ; since you're the first to do so I am actually going to take the time to answer you.
It is precisely because I have given much thought about the matter, that I refuse to take a decision influenced by emotional blackmail or fear of threats. It would be plainly hypocrite and encourage censorship, which are two things I am strongly opposed to - and that I hoped more people would be, too, regarding the worldwide support to Charlie hebdo. Oh well.
Taking down this comic would be against everything I stand for. This might not be my funniest work, but it's not the comic itself that is important : it's my right to dispose of my creation wherever and whenever I want. I believe it's called freedom of speech. Contrarily to what people believe, and are trying to make me believe, I am not impeding anybody else's rights. I don't force anybody to read me, you are free to look away. The hurt you might feel is not induced by the joke itself, but by a larger, complex, society situation that this comic will not help resolve NOR make any worse ; what might, however, is silencing voices and preventing any reasonable debate about it by automatic aggression.
There are favourites on this piece; meaning that despite the angry mob, some people have laughed at my so-called offensive joke. These people are more important to me than the ones I'm disturbing.
But should I lose all my followers and post my jokes in an empty place where nobody listens, I shall keep on doing them, and I shall cherish my right to do so.
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Thank you for your polite and well-thought out reply. I honestly didn't expect to get one.
I completely respect your decision to do as you wish with your own art. That is your right, as you say. I won't be unfollowing you for that decision, nor do I think any less of you.
You are right about automatic aggression being the enemy of reasonable debate. I would go so far as to say it is the enemy of understanding altogether. More, nay, all people should be open to adult discussion of topics. Others are highly unlikely to listen to even valid views if they are spat in hate.
While I still find the comic mildly offensive, after thinking about it, I'm kind of glad you're not taking it down. You haven't been rude about it, nowhere nearly as bad as the people decrying you, and you are entirely correct: it is your right to post as you will. Just as it is the right of people to respond.
Still. They could not be asstrumpets about it, yeah?
You do you, hun. Cheers.
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Who said we couldn't have a civilized discussion over internet 
Thanks, and have a nice day ! o/
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You too!
and BTW, I saw Drathe's follow up comic to this and fucking cried a river. Who gave ya'll the right. I have enough ships as it is!
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Hahaha yay
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This is apparently an offensive joke?
Honestly, I'd agree or disagree.... If I just knew what the joke was...
I'm probably just lost because I haven't played whatever game this is based from, but talking about how insensitive it is only confuses me more!!
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hey there! it's offensive due to the fact that krem, the character featured in the last three panels, is transgender. he was born in a female body, but is male in gender and mind.
it's offensive because it makes that into a joke, it makes krem being transgender into a joke, and that's not cool! it's super insensitive towards people who are trans, and have gone through experiences like this. i, myself, am trans, and it's a legitimate fear in my mind that people will reject me the moment they find out i am, and it's like that for a lot of transgender folk. this comic makes fun of that fear, turns it, and us, into a joke.
i hope that clears it up!
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That's not what I see, to me Dorian is acknowledging keep as a male... You see Dorian is homosexual so for him to be flirting with him/her, it means he thinks of krem as a male and accepts his/her preference on how to be treated and what she is, not what her/his gender is
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Keep? Stupid autocorrect! 👿
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It's a great joke, if it wasn't about lgbt people others would have no butthurt... and also the joke would make no sense. I see no hatred in the comic nor the autor of it. If you are so "tolerant" why does it hurt you people so much?
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This is the most shallow look at these characters I've ever seen. Did you actually spend anytime with either of these character? Or just interpret them how you want because oh Dorian's gay he definitely has to be sassy and shit. And oh Krems trans so wouldn't it be funny if I didn't get to know him or Iron Bull and just make a joke about something that the player would already know because trans. Your art doesn't excuse this gross depiction of the characters and if you think this is how they actually are, then you need to replay the game.
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Aren't you making a lot of assumptions about the artist's point of view, too? I went through this thread and even though you seem to be on the side of trans and LGBT, you seem like you are more interested in jumping down people's throats rather than having a proper conversation.
Buuuuuuut.... I care too much about both free speech and gender discussions not to say something, so I'm gonna point out that your judgmental attitude isn't doing what you really want it to do: which is to expand the conversation and help people to understand what's wrong with these portrayals. You're doing the opposite: making those of us who care about gender politics look like trollish bad guys who just scream and yell insults. Again, not saying this is what you want, but to a third party it's what it looks like: doesn't matter if your reasons are legit, this conversation has devolved into insults about individual character and intelligence, not about what really matters: the representation of trans and non-heterosexual genders.
Shutting people down doesn't help the LGBT community get the message out, and neither does censorship. Plus, there actually is another way to read this comic that is NOT poking fun at the gay and the trans character of the story, but poking fun at the heterosexual expectations of the very narrow-minded PC character portrayed. The PC *is* very straight-laced here -- only someone really innocent of the world wouldn't pick up on Dorian's sexual orientation or Krem's transgender identity. But, hey, I meet people like that who don't get it every day because despite all the literature and media that is out there educating people about LGBT culture, it's still a minority culture in many places and it's an ongoing discussion and fight for equality.
I think it's fascinating that the comic can be read either way, or a third way mocking *all* the characters involved, which is kind of the purpose of humor and comedy: to expose the ways in which we are absurd and make us laugh about them while showing us that these weaknesses exist. Talking about how you interpreted it differently and breaking down the assumptions and the expectations is a better way of really engaging others in meaningful conversation than lashing out at them; the source material doesn't excuse the rest of the behavior.
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But the thing is, this is just shallow caricatures of these characters, if the pc had spent any time getting to know them, then they would understand that Dorian doesn't act that way at all. Had she this about her on his personal quest with him an finding out then I would've understood. As for Krem if she had spent time with Iron Bull then the subject of him being trans would've come up and into detailed discussing where they ask, not great questions, but eventually he'll say that he hasn't transitioned. While yes you can see it as the inquisitor being either an aloof character or a shallow person, the final panel shouldn't of happened. Why is it so bad what's under krems clothes? He i still a man no matter what, but with the title being tevinter heartbreakers and her act of shock at Krem having you guessed it, breast is what really upset people. Because going by this now she can't be with him because of that, as if his not a man just because of his genitalia.
The comic in general wasn't funny and just in poor taste.
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Yes, it's a caricature of the characters -- but I would say that it's a caricature of all of them. Every one. It's unfair to assume that the artist was only portraying the LGBT characters as one-dimensional, because if you look at it completely without bias, the PC character is only interested in romancing someone, crying, and basically has no mature response except to freak out at everything that isn't what she expects it to be. The PC is kind of a simpleton. I'm not trying to say you need to buy into my interpretation, but your interpretation isn't the only way to read the comic. I'm also a big believer in free speech, so I think you have every right to accuse the comic of what you believe it to be. But just as you have the right to say it, the artist has right to have made it. It's the cost of that philosophy.
(That said, what if this was actually someone's actual experience with the game? And this is poking fun at that. Would you really tell someone they're unworthy of being a human being just for having the "poor taste" of just being unaware of the abundant clues about Dorian's orientation and Krem's gender identity? It does happen. In an ideal world it wouldn't, but doesn't everyone have to start learning about gender plurality somewhere?)
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You people's discriminatory attitudes are really getting annoying here, and your bullshit about this being too ooc to be funny isn't helping in that regard either.
You want members of the lgbt to be treated so differently from any other characters that they aren't allowed to be parodied the same way any other type of person would be. That's discriminatory against members of the lgbt and a disgusting attitude to promote.
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Are you serious? I feel like your joking or something. But I don't ever see people being straight the point of the joke, or people being cis the point of the joke.
I also don't see them getting killed because they're not straight or cis. It not discriminatory in anyway, honestly you're just pulling this out of your ass right now. And how is me stating this shallow depiction of a character who is never opened and even ASHAMED of being gay such a bad thing. If you or the artist time the time of day to actually look at his character you would see that he would never act like this. But again the only gay person in the game is just use to be some accessory or to be sassy. Honestly your argument is all over the place and these people have a right to be angry at the artist.
If it's annoying you so much, why don't you see how it feels to be the ass of the joke twenty-four seven. I don't know maybe listen to actual trans and gay people because they mean more than this shit of a comic.
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Okay, first off, the whole false claims of OOC behavior from you people, is only exemplified by your own OOC interpretations of the characters. Dorian isn't ashamed of being gay, nor is krem ashamed of being a man, both of them are perfectly fine with who they are, and if anything find the rest of the world dumb for having a problem with them. Dorian is plenty damn sassy as he is, and haughty, and a wee bit arrogant as well, though that seems to come more from the aristocratic background he was forced into.
If anything, Dorian is ashamed of his family not accepting him. His father for trying to change him, and his country valuing blood purity over all else. Dorian isn't ashamed of being gay, and you trying to twist him into some caricature of himself in order to be a "good example of why cis people are terrible" is truly the worst.
And by the way, not wanting lgbt members to be treated equally with cis people is discriminatory. Cis people could easily be the but of this kind of joke, and have been before in many other peices of fanart. You wanting no portrayal that doesn't condemning of cis people or treats lgbt people like they're a divine protected class is stupid, and you honestly should feel stupid for promoting it so much.
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Did you ever actually go do Dorian's personal quest? He won't even admit he's gay until he has to. And even after you do his personal quest he'll never talk about it. He's not openly gay at all arrogant, yes to hide his insecurities and make himself look composed. Dorian is not sassy, just quick witted. You could argue Solas is sassy too then. Even when Dorian and Iron Bull have whatever they have, Dorian is almost all embarrassed and even ashamed to be discussing such things publicly. Krem is proud of being a man yes, but that's not what im getting at. If the artist had gone through and became friends with iron bull then they would have know that Krem was indeed DFAB, so why does she need to be surprised at the end? The inquisitor should already know what would be under there if he already told you that. This person used that as a joke, and while yes Krem is proud of who he is, still suffers from dysphoria and would likely feel hurt by how the person reacted. It's like a person dating someone who's fat then overreacting and acting shocked that surprise, they are fat with their clothes off.
Honestly this argument that trans people not being made a joke is ridiculous. Trans people are murder because they are trans, they are constantly made fun of because they are trans. When they see shit like this, then they worry if this shit will happen to them in a relationship, and no I haven't seen any comics like this towards cis people because we are seen as the norm. We are just the default, just like heterosexual people. It's deplorable to think that because Trans people want to live their lives without being murdered or made fun that it's discriminatory towards them. Please get your head out of your ass for five seconds and go actually ask someone whos trans how they feel instead of disregarding them.
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Varrics chest hair jokes, plain and simple.
And last I checked, this comic doesn't promote murder, or discrimination, or anything of any sort. Nor does it make fun of them or treat them as the butt of the joke. If anything the inquisitor in this comic is the butt of the joke for getting ahead of themselves in trying to find romance. The fact that you can't see that, and see this as offensive, and that you had to try and raise whether I played the quest or not when I posted information you only get by DOING THE QUEST, tells me your the one who aught to "get your head out of your ass for five seconds".
To poly-m, I apologizing for responding to this close minded troll. I've cluttered your good art with bickering, and for that, I am sorry. Please continue to make good and funny pieces of art, and don't let comment pyromaniacs like the one above dissuade you.
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What information did you post exactly? The only about his father trying to change him with blood magic? How is it that you went through the personal quest and still think that Dorian is this openly gay person? He didn't even tell you he was gay until that quest, and even then he didn't want to.
Varric's chest hair joke and Lol Krem actually has breast teehee are two different jokes. The punch line isn't just the inquizi can't get to know these people, it's the fact that she acted surprised at information she should've already know. Everyone knew Krem was trans before the game came out, and If you do Iron Bulls quest then its explained in detail. So the person made a punchline of the fact that this person didn't care to remember that Krem was Dfab, the inquisitor shouldn't be surprised. What did she think was under there, satan?
To Poly-m, take down this comic and apologize.
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. . . . I just thought they were having a conversation and then the guy out of the blue is all like "MmmmmmmmmmmHHHH lets have sex." making lady sad.
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When did my fellow dragon age fans become so horrible that they need everything to be censored and can't take a single joke without flipping the hell out? Dorian is pretty damn flirty, even brings it up during his own loyalty quest for petes sake. As for krem, why is it that people can't have opinions about krem? I'm pretty damn sure krems not got such a stick up his ass that he'd get offended by this, or wouldn't try to get some now and again.
You guys do know not everything needs to be angst filled portrayls to makd you feel bad over social plights, right?
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Best comment in this whole discussion. Thank you!!
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Don't let the tumblr haters get to you. You are a great artist and from what I have seen in all your art and work you are a loving, cheering and beautiful person without any Transphobia or such things accused to you. Please keep on doing, what you are doing.
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you may not be a transphobic person intentionally, you may not be transphobic at all. the thing is you made a joke that filters into a transphobic setting and environment.
you don't deserve any hate for this, not at all. you should've been called out- politely. and you should've apologised.
even if you don't think this transphobic, it is. it might not be intentional...and that might not be what you were going for, but...it is.
as a transgender person myself, what you've shown in this comic is a huge fear of mine. someone finding out and reacting negatively. it changing the persons view of me. just because my body doesn't match the gender i identify as. this is a huge fear for a lot of closeted or stealth transgender people.
all you need do is apologise, people will back off, and i'm sorry you're getting hate for it. but you are in the wrong, even if you don't realise it.
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Neither of you actually know the characters.
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One, making Dorian OOC and sleezy? Not cool.
Two, if you talked to Krem for five minutes he is pretty open about being trans and using this as a joke? Wow. Um. No. How can you ever think that is okay?
It's just incredibly rude and I will never understand why people are sticking up for this comic.
I understand you think this is supposed to be cutesy funny, but this is obviously incredibly hurtful and just downright rude. You should really apologize and think of better "jokes"
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The only rude one is folks like you who wish to impose your version of head canon and moral supremacy onto the games and creative people, and act purposely obtuse simply to get others to stop having different and non-harmful, actually quite funny and even dare-it-be-said equality promoting, view points you dont share.
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Ah yes it's hilarious cause you know it's not harmful and rude at all to treat trans people as the butt end of your joke. As a cis person, it took a second to see this as a rude joke. Maybe it wasn't intentional but it's like saying "UGH HES TRANS" and fainting after he reveals his chest? Most will take it very personal, and there is a reason why this artist is getting called out on it.
It's not a cool joke and it's obvious you are a close minded individual who probably laughs at "get back in the kitchen" jokes. So really, I really don't give a flying fuck about your opinion. You're shallow and close minded.
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Let's agree on something? Can we say that, yes, the internet is a public forum? Anything you write is something spoken out loud for everyone to hear. Good or bad, more people will read the text here than respond or comment. Do they agree or disagree? Chances are that those of us to comment are in a small minority. Can we acknowledge, then, that public discourse without context also means it's even easier for things to be taken out of context in a way that will seem hurtful and rude? It sounds like maybe something in your background might help you understand how easy it is to be misinterpreted and judged without having a chance to have a voice; to explain something you've done, or maybe even just how you appear to others. I'm gonna assume that either you might have experienced discrimination, or be more sensitive to instances of it because yes, there is a lot of judgement about the trans community, and when we have friends in that community, we care more. Or maybe you care on principal. I'm making an assumption here, feel free to correct me, but I'm basically just hoping that it means you consider yourself a caring and empathetic person.
I also happen to know that this particular piece was an in-joke and a gift the artist gave to a friend about that friend's experiences in DAI (as a cis character within the game). It's about gender expectations and comically poking fun at having their particular experiences about gender and romance upended. In that sense, innocent of a larger context (and keeping in mind that bit about the internet being a loud place and misunderstandings), it's easy for people to eavesdrop and hear things differently, and the comic was poking fun at the narrow-mindedness of the heterosexual PC's point of view, because both Dorian and Krem are *very* obviously not part of the cisgender orientation and it's silly to have expected them to be. In that sense, I think it's kind of a positive thing that BioWare is making games which introduce these possibilities to Players who won't normally encounter that in their normal worldviews, because fantasy is a safe environment to explore those ideas. A place where they don't necessarily need to be super well versed in the existing gender discussion to be included, to feel empathy, to like the characters and realize they are more than just gender stereotypes.
I can see how it can be interpreted as mockery -- I know the backstory so it took me awhile to understand how that would come across in that way -- but I don't think it was intended as such. What I can't see is why this, of all the possible bad things in the world, is one worth demeaning another human being over. It's dehumanizing and it doesn't help people to care about gender issues to insult them; it's not the message I would want gender discussion to take.
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It's not a head canon though? Krem is legitimately trans and if the artist spent any time with dorian, they would know Dorian would never do this. It's completely out of character for Dorian to be openly gay like this when he didn't even tell you he was gay until he was forced to. As for Krem, if the artist actually spent time with Iron Bull then they would already know that Krem was trans, so why is he still a punchline? This isn't equality promoting, its just you pissed that you can't laugh at something that's actually harmful to others. So sit your ass down.
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It always makes me sad, when I'm confronted by all the hate people carry in their hearts that they splash about themselves over a little cartoon. I guess it's the negative side of the freedom of speech. Please don't give into their bile and please keep making your art.
ps. I haven't played the game yet so I had to look up what was going on here. Your character reactions are always so darn cute.
pss. Nothing is off limits in comedy. shatteringthelens.com/2014/08/…
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Oh i know that way too well don't worry
Thanks buddy ! And cool article !
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i get what the joke is supposed to be but it's not funny and really transphobic?? + it looks a lot like you're portraying dorian as just the gay guy who flirts with every man ever when in reality he keeps a respectful distance for fear of homophobia. but for the inquisitor to just look horrified is super offensive and krem's gender really shouldn't be used as the butt of a joke bc he's a really important character for a lot of people, myself included. that's not cool.
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as a trans person and an avid bioware fan you need to learn some respect, delete this and apologize. the bodies we were born with don't deserve to be the butt-end of jokes, and the way you and some of your fans are treating this blatant transphobia is sickening to me. this art is damaging to other trans people and just adds to the constant fear of ridicule and hate we face everyday
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