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ShinRedDear β Crisis on Infinite Spinosaurus (fixed again)
#diagram #dinosaur #extinctanimals #paleoart #predator #reconstruction #spinosaurus #theropod #theropoda #spinosaurusaegyptiacus #tetanuran #spinosaurus2014 #andreacau
Published: 2014-09-21 07:09:46 +0000 UTC; Views: 7738; Favourites: 150; Downloads: 25
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Description
I promised my next paleoart piece would feature Guanlong wuccai but I just could not stop myselffrom contributing to the whole Spinosaurus case that has been the paleo-community hot topic
for a while now.
Since I try to remain neutral in terms of opinion towards Ibrahim's paper and the different bits of criticism towards it,
I decided, as usual, to show mutliple versions of our beloved gigantic fish-eater.
But this time, I wanted to do it a bit differently so I decided to show you a sort of reconstruction chimera,
with all the different parts highlighted by their color.
I want to thank Andrea Cau and Hyrotrioskjan hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/ for inspiring me this silly diagram.
EDIT: 22.09.14: Yoult pointed out an error in the way I reconstructed Andrea Cau's neck pose. I did my best to correct it with Photoshop.
EDIT 2: 22.09.14: Nizar and Maganucco, colleagues of Ibrahim and contributors of the paper, responded to the skepticism on the hindlimbs measures and so I decided to modifiy my diagram again, to be more respectful
of the scientists efforts.
EDIT 3: 30.09.22: Finally updated the tail and sail after years of procrastination!
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Comments: 63
Spinosaurus is the name we give to a handful of fossilised remains. It doesn't have agency. And scientists do not
have sufficient material OR research made to decide, that's the thing. XD
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Ah, the first drawing I ever saw of yours! I still am very fond of it even to this day...
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You are really going through the archives! XD I should remake it one day,
hopefully after we get some new material. XD
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Well, hopefully we're all lucky enough to have more material described and discovered in our lifetimes...
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Now that it's likely that Spinosaurus devoured it's prey like a pelican, Cau's version has all my support.
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When did you hear the pelican-feeding strategy thing ? Was there a paper ?
Still, thanks for your commet. ^^
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Here it is: journals.plos.org/plosone/artiβ¦
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Thank you ! 
I just can't keep it up sometimes. ^^
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i think it good that you explore a wide range of possibility's with this image.
which sail reconstruction do you think is more likely betweenΒ Ibrahims version and Jamie Headdens version?
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Thank you for your appreciation, kirkseven !
For the moment, Hartman and Headden's made a pretty strong case for
their own version of the sail so I might lean towards them but the Spinosaurus remains
are such a mess in terms of identification that I will hold any judgement for now.
I think I could revisit this piece, to further show our current views in the matter. ^^
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Thank you !!!!! XD I was going to despair that no one would get it ! XD
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I did ! Both for the cervical vertebrae study and the quadrate study. What we can conclude
based on those two studies is that they were at least two species (or two morphotypes) of
large amphibious spinosaurids in the kem Kem formation. However, I don't think that everything is
said or that Ibrahim's reconstruction is completely debunked. I think we have barely started scratching
the surface of the mystery of north-african spinosaurids. So my mind isn't completely set on the matter.
Thank you for your commentary and interest.
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You're very welcome ! Isn't it amazing to see spinosauroids had immense variety ?
Maybe that success lies in the all eating diet of Spinosauroids ?
You know they eat pterosaurs, fish, middle to small sized herbivores, maybe anything smaller then themselves whenever terrestrial, aquatic or airborne landed for resting\eating or all of them...
And\or maybe because of their amphibious habits ? They were comfortable in both land and both water...
Non African spinosauroids ? I am currently expecting a new species from south Africa, madagascar, new zealand, south america, and\or maybe even from antartica ! A cold adapted penguin\orca\killee seal like spinosauroid of antartica !?!!
And also a more detailed report for Australian '' Aussie '' spinosauroid...
Maybe most synornyms of spinosaurodae aren't synornyms after all !
Maybe even most thought to be synonymous dinosaurs were\are actually real species like Raptorex & nannotyrannus !!?
Especially after the brontosaurus & sigilmassasaurus this seems like a real possibility
A bit speculative I get here
New zealand & Antarctican Spinosauroid is my speculatioen; maybe founder paleontologists give one of them my name ?
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Lots of speculation there ! XD But it is part of paleontology and part of what
makes extinct faunas fun.
Derived spinosaurids still remain rather mysterious and we aren't sure of how widespread they were exactly.
But an australian spinosaurid sure would be nice. ^^
As for the issue of synonymity and merging species, it is a complicated and multi-faceted issue. Brontosaurus
was brought back due to a reassessment of the different apatosaurid specimens we have and how different characters
are spread in them.
To me, the case for Raptorex and even more so Nanotyrannus is fare more dubious. Nanotyrannus's original description has
been thoroughly debunked and as for Raptorex, it is likely he is either a juvenile Tarbosaurus or at least a juvenile tyrannosaurid.
The fact the holotype was not found in situ makes it very hard to be sure of its geological age.
But still, the world of dinosaurs is still full of surprises so let us be surprised. ^^
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Absolutely indeed !
Australian spinosauroid is a REAL thing actually !
So as oxalaia; central american spinosauroid
Here; Australian spinosauroid
:
www.australiangeographic.com.aβ¦
sciencythoughts.blogspot.com.tβ¦
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21β¦
rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.orβ¦
It's unfortunately very underrated; and uninterested however
Brontosaurus return meant joy for most people also; however nobody expecting the sigilmassasaurus.
Well as far as I know surprises never end in paleontology; so I stay tuned to the news
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True !
Even though hyrotrioskjian made a speculative reconstruction a few years ago. ^^
Underrated indeed ! But also very fragmentary.
Thank you for refreshing my memory. ^^
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This one ?
hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/aβ¦
True; but at least it's a real thing !! Unlike several cases
Very welcome; I like searching dinosaur species to species; maybe that's why I remember
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Quadrupedal model just seems not possible; walking on its knuckles will crush the Muscle of the Animal :/
Even the (very) Speculative tripodal posture could be more possible
Good work thought Β Β
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I totally agree and thank you. ^^
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Thanks & You're Welcome !
Good PlaeoArtworks
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Hehe, thanks again. ^^ I'm in the process
of making more paleoart but it takes time.
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Very Welcome !
Good luck on making more good paleoarts !
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Is this a representation of your confusion over the validity of
Spinosaurus's new look or about his locomotion ? ^^
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no, just thinking about what one i agree on, but mainly the new look.
(which i agree with)
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Thanks for your reply ! ^^ I agree to the new look too !
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that's very helpful when it's time to understand the many ways that spinosaurus could be
I wonder which one will be the definitive
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Thanks for your comment. ^^
I think our view of Spinosaurus is bound to evolve once again.
Still, Ibrahim's work deserves our attention and respect and
the coming monograph will give us some clear view of this
wonderful animal.
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Ah! Mutant spinosaurus run for your life!
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It's more of a dimension paradox Spinosaurus, set in
a state of quantum incertainty. 
But thank you for your comment.
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I doubt Cau's neck pose. If there was ligiments attaching the neck like that, the head mobility would be greatly reduced.
Β
I think the Ibrahim reconstruction is flawed. Even if Scott Hartmen's opinion is wrong, it still doesn't explain the other issues of the skeleton (how is Sigilmassasaurus the same as Spinosaurus? Isn't Sigilmassasaurus a Carcharodontosaurid)
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Sigilmassasaurus is only a set of vertebreas. Its attribution to a carcharodontosaurid can't be considered as the only valid option.
Andrea Cau explained how the Sigilmassasaurus holotype can be attributed to Spinosaurus. As for the neck pose, I'm showing in my diagram
that the ligament attachments are still speculative but an upright position of the neck makes sense, in terms of balance. Also, most animals
maintain their neck in an upright position (Darren Naish) so for me, the pose in itself is possible. The rest of the theory regarding the neck
muscles and ligaments are matter of speculation, as expected for any proposed newly proposed hypothesis but we can't rule them out for now.
My reconstruction is only a playful summary of the different possible views on Spinosaurus and not a statement on the validity of the said views.
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Strange. One 2013 study found out that Sigilmassasaurus was it's own valid genus.Β Since Sigilmasssasaurus is so fragmentary it's impossible to say if it's the same as Spinosaurus.
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And it also found it wasn't a carcharodontosaur and noted great similarities with Spinosaurus, I read that there's new material of Ichtyovenator that offers more evidence for the synonymy of Sigilmassasaurus with Spinosaurus.
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Then why you still asked "isn't it a carcharodontosaurid?"
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It has been classified with Charcharodontosaurus before.
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Yes but I found odd how you referenced a publication for something (it's a valid genus) while ommiting the things about it that go against the premise of your comment.
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It is also impossible to say it isnΒ΄t
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Great comparison!Β I'm also trying to take a neutral stance on the original paper, at least until the monograph comes out, then we can really decide what we think!
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Thank you and I totaly agree with you about the paper.
Critical thinking is essential towards scientific publications
but we can't make a case without all the informations.
That's very wise of you, ZoPteryx.
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Bro, this is awesome!
Spinogate in one pic!
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Thanks, man !
Spinogate seems to have become its own entity. XD
I am humbled to have been able to contribute.
Thank you for your enthusiastic comment.
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Aah, the two-headed dragon!
Didin't know we don't have a complete pair of spino's arms... Mmh, maybe they were very different from his relatives, better adapted for a quadrupedal locomotion perhaps?
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I think the pelvic girdle is not suitable for quadrupeds.
And again, we don't know how much of the arms is based
on the undescribed spinosaurid remains. I think a more conservative
structure of forelimbs seems more likely. But I'm not a authority on the subject. ^^
Still, thank you for your comment and your interest.
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