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This is a collage series deep dive I made explaining that the Schumacherverse Isn't the Burtonverse. Billy Dee's Harvey Dent didn't bleach his skin white. Batman Forever (1995) and Batman & Robin (1997) are Joel Schumacher's Earth-97, not Burton/Keaton's Earth-89. Joel Schumacher himself called Batman Forever his own version of Batman rather then a sequel to Tim's movies, Joel Schumacher even called Batman Forever the start of a new franchise and Chris O'Donnell confirmed that he never even met Tim Burton, Tim Burton wasn't even involved on the Batman Forever sets, and Supergirl "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part One" [season 5, 2019] and Sam Hamm/Joe Quinones's Batman '89 (2021-2022) further confirmed this before The Flash (2023) movie.

Film Review Special: Batman Forever Souvenir Special (1995) said, "Joel Schumacher re-invented the Batman franchise."

www.1995batman.com/2020/11/mag…

Joel Schumacher said to AV Club in 2003, "The whole thing at Warner was that Batman Returns had ended the franchise, and none of the theaters wanted it. We would have meetings with theater distributors who didn't want another Batman movie, because they had gotten burned on Batman Returns. None of the merchandising people wanted the merchandise, because they had had it all sent back. I was saying, 'Val Kilmer.' I was saying, 'Let's go younger.' Val Kilmer was a very handsome Batman. I think Batman Forever was an excellent Batman comic book [movie]. I think Nicole [Kidman] was delicious. I think Tommy Lee Jones was great and Jim Carrey was a phenomenal Riddler and Drew Barrymore was delicious, and it was sexy and fun, and it was the most profitable movie of the year."

www.avclub.com/joel-schumacher…

Tim Burton explained, "I think I upset McDonalds. [They asked] 'What's that black stuff coming out of the Penguin's mouth. We can't sell Happy Meals with that!' It was a weird reaction to Batman Returns, because half the people thought it was 'lighter' than the first one and half the people thought it was 'darker.' I think the studio just thought it was 'too weird' -- they wanted to go with something more 'child-friendly' or 'family-friendly.' In other words, they didn't want me to do another one."

uproxx.com/movies/why-tim-burt…

On the Batman Returns DVD/Blu-ray special feature Shadows of the Bat: The Cinematic Saga of the Dark Knight Part 4: The Dark Side of the Night (2005), Tim Burton explained, “I remember toying with the idea of doing another one. And I remember going into Warner Bros. and having a meeting. And I’m going, ‘I could do this or we could do that.’ And they go like, ‘Tim, don’t you want to do a smaller movie now? Just something that’s more -- ?’ About half an hour into the meeting, I go, ‘You don’t want me to make another one, do you?’ And they go, ‘Oh, no, no, no, no, no!’ And I just said, ‘No, I know you!’ So, we just stopped it right there.”

www.denofgeek.com/movies/why-t…

In the Batman Returns DVD/Blu-ray commentary (2005) Tim Burton said, “I remember going into a meeting, toying with the idea of doing another one, and they [Warner Brothers studio executives] trying to talk me out of it. I think they got a lot of flak from their tie-in partners on this movie [Batman Returns], they think that they were happy that I didn’t do another one.”

www.thegeektwins.com/2014/07/6…

Tim Burton explained to Hollywood Reporter in 2017, “I don’t know if any ideas made it in,” says Burton of Batman Forever (1995). “I realized halfway through my meeting with Warner Bros. that they didn’t really want me to do the movie. They kept saying, ‘Don’t you wanna go back and do a movie like Edward Scissorhands? Something smaller?’ I said, ‘You don’t want me to do the movie, do you?’

www.hollywoodreporter.com/movi…

In Tim Burton's book Burton on Burton (2000) he explained that WB Studio heads Bob Daly and Terry Semel didn't want Tim Burton to direct a third Batman because of the big backlash against Batman Returns, "I don't think Warners wanted me to direct a third Batman. I even said that to them. I think what happened was I went through a lot on the last one, a lot of it was personal, a lot of it had to do with the movie, a lot of it was a desire to make the movie something different. I've always been a little at odds with them. Any time people start saying things are too dark to me I just don't get it, because I have a different perception of what dark is. And they got a lot of flake from parents thinking it [Batman Returns] was too scary for their kids. But I feel close to that material. I certainly don't feel like dissociating myself from the material completely because I feel I gave it something."

In Tim Burton's book Burton on Burton (2000) he explained that he didn't even like the title Batman Forever, "I always hated those titles like Batman Forever. I thought, 'Batman Forever, that sounds like a tattoo that somebody would get when there on drugs or something,' or something some kid would write in the yearbook to somebody else. I have high problems with some of those titles. I saw Batman Forever, but I didn't see the last one [Batman & Robin]. I couldn't."

Joel Schumacher is dead and Tim Burton is still ranting about Batman Forever. In Empire Magazine [June 2022] Tim Burton explained, "It is funny to see this now, because all these memories come back of, ‘It’s too dark’. So, it makes me laugh a little bit. Back then they went the other way. That’s the funny thing about it. But then I was like, ‘Wait a minute. Okay. Hold on a second here. You complain about me, I’m 'too weird,' I’m 'too dark,' and then you put nipples on the costume? Go fuck yourself.’ Seriously. So yeah, I think that’s why I didn’t end up [doing a third film]…I’m not just overly dark. That represents me in the sense that… that’s how I see things. It’s not meant as pure darkness. There’s a mixture, I feel really fondly about it because of the weird experiment that it felt like." Empire Magazine explained, "Given Batman Returns’ reception and controversies over its dark tone at the time, the studio turned to director Joel Schumacher for Batman Forever and Batman & Robin – two films whose dialled-up Day-Glo aesthetic and kids’ cartoon sensibilities felt a million miles away from Burton."

www.empireonline.com/movies/ne…

In Film Review Special: Batman Forever Souvenir Special (1995) Chris O'Donnell was asked, "What impact did Tim Burton have on Batman Forever?" Chris O'Donnell explained, "I'm not really sure. I've never met him. If he was on the set, he wasn't there on the days I worked. But his mark is definitely on this movie because he created the look of the new Batman in the first two films. He brought it from the TV show to what it is now."
www.1995batman.com/2020/11/mag…

The Vancouver Sun [June 9th 1995] newspaper features an article by Ian Spelling called "Director Joel Schumacher Brings His Own New Vision to Batman Forever: Lighter, Funnier.... Director Joel Schumacher received a call from the top brass at Warner Bros. Studio heads Bob Daly and Terry Semel wanted Schumacher to take the reins of the Batman franchise from Tim Burton."

Joel Schumacher explained, "Tim's films were his version of Batman comic books. This is ours." Ian Spelling explained, "A new cast makes the distinction even sharper. When Michael Keaton decided to hang up the cape and cowl after playing Batman/Bruce Wayne in the first two films, Schumacher quickly went after Val Kilmer." Joel Schumacher explained, "When Val came on board, that further made it a new franchise because we had a different Batman," the director said. "So even though this was Warner's third Batman, it was our first."

www.newspapers.com/image/49575…

www.newspapers.com/image/49575…

In Batman Forever: The Official Movie Book (1995) written by Michael Singer, Joel Schumacher explained, "I think Tim Burton did a wonderful job with the other movies," notes Schumacher, "but to copy someone isn't really to flatter them. I think it was incumbent upon us to give our own version of the Batman legend."

In Cinescope [June 1995] Joel Schumacher explained, "I wasn't asked to do the third of Tim's movies." And Joel Schumacher explained, "When I was able to bring Val Kilmer in, it really gave me and the rest of the creative team an opportunity to feel that we were doing a new [movie] instead of a sequel..."

www.1995batman.com/2018/03/mag…
Sam Stone's 2021 Comic Book Resources article explained, "In response to questions if the events of the Schumacher Batman films are canon to the world of Batman '89, Hamm observed they take place on the alternate universe of Earth-97 as opposed to Batman '89's apt location on Earth-89. This means Alfred may not have a niece at all, let alone one that is destined to take up the mantle of Batgirl. Instead, a very different Robin [Marlon Wayans' Drake Wilson] from Chris O'Donnell's Dick Grayson portrayal is set to make their debut in the comic book series, one more closely mirroring original cinematic plans for the character before both Burton and Keaton eventually left the franchise."
www.cbr.com/batman-89-batgirl-…

Batman Fandom explains, "The Schumacherverse is the name given to the Earth-97 reality. It serves as the setting of the Joel Schumacher films Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, along with tie-in media such as Robin: Facing the Enemy and Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness. In this reality, Batman fought crime in a more garish and colorful Gotham City. Though initially motivated by troubled memories of his parents' murder and its aftermath, he gradually learned to let go of vengeance and use the identity to help others. As his secret identity of Bruce Wayne, Batman would regularly attend charity and social events. Batman also fought crime alongside former circus acrobat Dick Grayson and his butler's niece Barbara Windsor, who used the identities of Robin and Batgirl respectively. The trio would battle gimmick-based criminals with madcap personalities, including vengeance-driven gangster Two-Face, mind-draining corporate mogul Riddler, cryogenic thief Mr. Freeze, and plant-based femme fatale Poison Ivy.

Initially believed to be part of the Burtonverse, various accounts suggest that the Schumacherverse was either a possible timeline or separate reality that followed similar events. However, its Batman was later merged into the another reality after it's Flash altered events to prove his father's innocence in a crime, possibly merging the two realities together."

batman.fandom.com/wiki/Schumac…

And Sam Hamm also tweeted on Twitter, "Nobody goes to Earth-97 these days. It's too crowded."
twitter.com/SamuelHamm/status/…

Dark Crisis: Big Bang (2023), written by Mark Waid and art by Dan Jurgens, created a new Earth-789 hybrid of Burtonverse Earth-89 and Donnerverse Earth-78.
comicbook.com/movies/news/dc-c…

geektyrant.com/news/dc-confirm…
www.slashfilm.com/1138301/dc-f…

Description

This is a collage series deep dive I made explaining that the Schumacherverse Isn't the Burtonverse. Billy Dee's Harvey Dent didn't bleach his skin white. Batman Forever (1995) and Batman & Robin (1997) are Joel Schumacher's Earth-97, not Burton/Keaton's Earth-89. Joel Schumacher himself called Batman Forever his own version of Batman rather then a sequel to Tim's movies, Joel Schumacher even called Batman Forever the start of a new franchise and Chris O'Donnell confirmed that he never even met Tim Burton, Tim Burton wasn't even involved on the Batman Forever sets, and Supergirl "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part One" [season 5, 2019] and Sam Hamm/Joe Quinones's Batman '89 (2021-2022) further confirmed this before The Flash (2023) movie.

Film Review Special: Batman Forever Souvenir Special (1995) said, "Joel Schumacher re-invented the Batman franchise."

www.1995batman.com/2020/11/mag…

Joel Schumacher said to AV Club in 2003, "The whole thing at Warner was that Batman Returns had ended the franchise, and none of the theaters wanted it. We would have meetings with theater distributors who didn't want another Batman movie, because they had gotten burned on Batman Returns. None of the merchandising people wanted the merchandise, because they had had it all sent back. I was saying, 'Val Kilmer.' I was saying, 'Let's go younger.' Val Kilmer was a very handsome Batman. I think Batman Forever was an excellent Batman comic book [movie]. I think Nicole [Kidman] was delicious. I think Tommy Lee Jones was great and Jim Carrey was a phenomenal Riddler and Drew Barrymore was delicious, and it was sexy and fun, and it was the most profitable movie of the year."

www.avclub.com/joel-schumacher…

Tim Burton explained, "I think I upset McDonalds. [They asked] 'What's that black stuff coming out of the Penguin's mouth. We can't sell Happy Meals with that!' It was a weird reaction to Batman Returns, because half the people thought it was 'lighter' than the first one and half the people thought it was 'darker.' I think the studio just thought it was 'too weird' -- they wanted to go with something more 'child-friendly' or 'family-friendly.' In other words, they didn't want me to do another one."

uproxx.com/movies/why-tim-burt…

On the Batman Returns DVD/Blu-ray special feature Shadows of the Bat: The Cinematic Saga of the Dark Knight Part 4: The Dark Side of the Night (2005), Tim Burton explained, “I remember toying with the idea of doing another one. And I remember going into Warner Bros. and having a meeting. And I’m going, ‘I could do this or we could do that.’ And they go like, ‘Tim, don’t you want to do a smaller movie now? Just something that’s more -- ?’ About half an hour into the meeting, I go, ‘You don’t want me to make another one, do you?’ And they go, ‘Oh, no, no, no, no, no!’ And I just said, ‘No, I know you!’ So, we just stopped it right there.”

www.denofgeek.com/movies/why-t…

In the Batman Returns DVD/Blu-ray commentary (2005) Tim Burton said, “I remember going into a meeting, toying with the idea of doing another one, and they [Warner Brothers studio executives] trying to talk me out of it. I think they got a lot of flak from their tie-in partners on this movie [Batman Returns], they think that they were happy that I didn’t do another one.”

www.thegeektwins.com/2014/07/6…

Tim Burton explained to Hollywood Reporter in 2017, “I don’t know if any ideas made it in,” says Burton of Batman Forever (1995). “I realized halfway through my meeting with Warner Bros. that they didn’t really want me to do the movie. They kept saying, ‘Don’t you wanna go back and do a movie like Edward Scissorhands? Something smaller?’ I said, ‘You don’t want me to do the movie, do you?’

www.hollywoodreporter.com/movi…

In Tim Burton's book Burton on Burton (2000) he explained that WB Studio heads Bob Daly and Terry Semel didn't want Tim Burton to direct a third Batman because of the big backlash against Batman Returns, "I don't think Warners wanted me to direct a third Batman. I even said that to them. I think what happened was I went through a lot on the last one, a lot of it was personal, a lot of it had to do with the movie, a lot of it was a desire to make the movie something different. I've always been a little at odds with them. Any time people start saying things are too dark to me I just don't get it, because I have a different perception of what dark is. And they got a lot of flake from parents thinking it [Batman Returns] was too scary for their kids. But I feel close to that material. I certainly don't feel like dissociating myself from the material completely because I feel I gave it something."

In Tim Burton's book Burton on Burton (2000) he explained that he didn't even like the title Batman Forever, "I always hated those titles like Batman Forever. I thought, 'Batman Forever, that sounds like a tattoo that somebody would get when there on drugs or something,' or something some kid would write in the yearbook to somebody else. I have high problems with some of those titles. I saw Batman Forever, but I didn't see the last one [Batman & Robin]. I couldn't."

Joel Schumacher is dead and Tim Burton is still ranting about Batman Forever. In Empire Magazine [June 2022] Tim Burton explained, "It is funny to see this now, because all these memories come back of, ‘It’s too dark’. So, it makes me laugh a little bit. Back then they went the other way. That’s the funny thing about it. But then I was like, ‘Wait a minute. Okay. Hold on a second here. You complain about me, I’m 'too weird,' I’m 'too dark,' and then you put nipples on the costume? Go fuck yourself.’ Seriously. So yeah, I think that’s why I didn’t end up [doing a third film]…I’m not just overly dark. That represents me in the sense that… that’s how I see things. It’s not meant as pure darkness. There’s a mixture, I feel really fondly about it because of the weird experiment that it felt like." Empire Magazine explained, "Given Batman Returns’ reception and controversies over its dark tone at the time, the studio turned to director Joel Schumacher for Batman Forever and Batman & Robin – two films whose dialled-up Day-Glo aesthetic and kids’ cartoon sensibilities felt a million miles away from Burton."

www.empireonline.com/movies/ne…

In Film Review Special: Batman Forever Souvenir Special (1995) Chris O'Donnell was asked, "What impact did Tim Burton have on Batman Forever?" Chris O'Donnell explained, "I'm not really sure. I've never met him. If he was on the set, he wasn't there on the days I worked. But his mark is definitely on this movie because he created the look of the new Batman in the first two films. He brought it from the TV show to what it is now."
www.1995batman.com/2020/11/mag…

The Vancouver Sun [June 9th 1995] newspaper features an article by Ian Spelling called "Director Joel Schumacher Brings His Own New Vision to Batman Forever: Lighter, Funnier.... Director Joel Schumacher received a call from the top brass at Warner Bros. Studio heads Bob Daly and Terry Semel wanted Schumacher to take the reins of the Batman franchise from Tim Burton."

Joel Schumacher explained, "Tim's films were his version of Batman comic books. This is ours." Ian Spelling explained, "A new cast makes the distinction even sharper. When Michael Keaton decided to hang up the cape and cowl after playing Batman/Bruce Wayne in the first two films, Schumacher quickly went after Val Kilmer." Joel Schumacher explained, "When Val came on board, that further made it a new franchise because we had a different Batman," the director said. "So even though this was Warner's third Batman, it was our first."

www.newspapers.com/image/49575…

www.newspapers.com/image/49575…

In Batman Forever: The Official Movie Book (1995) written by Michael Singer, Joel Schumacher explained, "I think Tim Burton did a wonderful job with the other movies," notes Schumacher, "but to copy someone isn't really to flatter them. I think it was incumbent upon us to give our own version of the Batman legend."

In Cinescope [June 1995] Joel Schumacher explained, "I wasn't asked to do the third of Tim's movies." And Joel Schumacher explained, "When I was able to bring Val Kilmer in, it really gave me and the rest of the creative team an opportunity to feel that we were doing a new [movie] instead of a sequel..."

www.1995batman.com/2018/03/mag…
Sam Stone's 2021 Comic Book Resources article explained, "In response to questions if the events of the Schumacher Batman films are canon to the world of Batman '89, Hamm observed they take place on the alternate universe of Earth-97 as opposed to Batman '89's apt location on Earth-89. This means Alfred may not have a niece at all, let alone one that is destined to take up the mantle of Batgirl. Instead, a very different Robin [Marlon Wayans' Drake Wilson] from Chris O'Donnell's Dick Grayson portrayal is set to make their debut in the comic book series, one more closely mirroring original cinematic plans for the character before both Burton and Keaton eventually left the franchise."
www.cbr.com/batman-89-batgirl-…

Batman Fandom explains, "The Schumacherverse is the name given to the Earth-97 reality. It serves as the setting of the Joel Schumacher films Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, along with tie-in media such as Robin: Facing the Enemy and Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness. In this reality, Batman fought crime in a more garish and colorful Gotham City. Though initially motivated by troubled memories of his parents' murder and its aftermath, he gradually learned to let go of vengeance and use the identity to help others. As his secret identity of Bruce Wayne, Batman would regularly attend charity and social events. Batman also fought crime alongside former circus acrobat Dick Grayson and his butler's niece Barbara Windsor, who used the identities of Robin and Batgirl respectively. The trio would battle gimmick-based criminals with madcap personalities, including vengeance-driven gangster Two-Face, mind-draining corporate mogul Riddler, cryogenic thief Mr. Freeze, and plant-based femme fatale Poison Ivy.

Initially believed to be part of the Burtonverse, various accounts suggest that the Schumacherverse was either a possible timeline or separate reality that followed similar events. However, its Batman was later merged into the another reality after it's Flash altered events to prove his father's innocence in a crime, possibly merging the two realities together."

batman.fandom.com/wiki/Schumac…

And Sam Hamm also tweeted on Twitter, "Nobody goes to Earth-97 these days. It's too crowded."
twitter.com/SamuelHamm/status/…

Dark Crisis: Big Bang (2023), written by Mark Waid and art by Dan Jurgens, created a new Earth-789 hybrid of Burtonverse Earth-89 and Donnerverse Earth-78.
comicbook.com/movies/news/dc-c…

geektyrant.com/news/dc-confirm…
www.slashfilm.com/1138301/dc-f…