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TemBrook — Bees Equal Friendship
Published: 2012-09-08 22:31:26 +0000 UTC; Views: 13214; Favourites: 298; Downloads: 39
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My actual opinion on Sherlock vs Elementary:I like the Elementary pilot. I'm picturing Joan getting a hubby along the line(only to have him die tragically), and her bromance with Sherlock being the raddest of them all. However, and this holds true with every series ever, I'ma wait 'till Season 1 is over until I label myself a true fan. I wasn't even a huge fan of Sherlock until I saw the third episode (Come on, Blind Baker was terribad)
Plus I really like the feel of Gregson so far, and can't wait to see more of him. He doesn't seem to be as much of a pushover as BBC's Lestrade.
The colored words in the first panel represent legit argument points I've seen Sherlock BBC fans bitching about.
The class one is the worst I've seen, saying Sherlock is more classy 'cause he wears nicer clothes and lives in London and drinks tea. Uuuuggghhhhh.
Basically, WATCH THE PILOT AT LEAST AND DON'T JUDGE A SERIES BASED ON RACISM/SEXISM/CLASSISM.
*I forgot E!Sherlock's stubble. >_> He shaved this day. At least I don't normally draw freckles.
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Comments: 163
Ah good memory, this pic. I love how Elementary proved itself so well that this debate barely even exists anymore.
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I know, season 4 just started and it's still going strong, but still I there's only one friend I can really talk to about it because people still refuse to give it a chance when compared to BBC, I like BBC Sherlock but I just like Elementary more, I just feel the writings better as while it makes drastic changes that make you skeptical of it, they do pay off in the end,
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Huh. There's a kind of blindness people have to BBC Sherlock's flaws, bc it changed a looot from the books that people don't even acknowledge, and initially "too different from the books" was the basis for people's complaints about Elementary. I mean really they were buttmad about Joan or whatever reason, but to make themselves sound better it was all about "the source material". Elementary is awesome and different! If you like mystery, Elementary! If you like drama, Sherlock!
Gonna rant about Sherlock for a bit tho, you can ignore this:
I couldn't stand the last season of Sherlock, especially the last episode. Sherlock calls Janine a whore for using their relationship for selfish reasons, but she only did that because he did the same thing?? Literally called her a whore and he's still written afterward as if he was in the right and it's fine that he said that because she was nasty anyway (even tho she was only nasty bc he's nasty first). Plus Mary didn't speak to her maid of honor at all in the episode about how close Watson and Sherlock's friendship was and how honored Sherlock was to be best man. ffffffff
Plus, I dunno. Sherlock wasn't clever, he didn't solve any mystery bc the answer was handed to him. He ended up shooting Magnussen who in the book was shot by a former victim who happened to be a woman. On top of everything else it came off as sexist to me that instead Sherlock shot the dude. Fuck writing another woman into the plot, amiright?
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I know, I remember trying to tell a new friend about it and here action to Elementary was "EWW!" and when I asked her why she said "that's not what Sherlock is supposed to look like!" and I just had to face palm, granted I've only read one short story but Sherlock is usually depicted as a bit older, and probably doesn't look as pretty as Benedict Cumberbatch, (who in my opinion is handsome in his own right bit not exactly someone I would call "hot") but sadly you can't change people's opinions on things like that,
And hey rant away, I don't mind, I sort of stopped watching BBC after a while, but I know the issues about it and the trouble about writing female characters,
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I know you posted this a while ago but I wanted to add my two bits. I adore this comic. I wasn't able to get through the first season of Sherlock, but I'm almost to the end of Season 1 of Elementary. There are so many strong female characters, and minority characters. The friendship between Holmes and Watson is so good. I love that she is an equal and not a side kick. I can't imagine Moffat's Sherlock turning to Watson and saying "No, you handle this one."
The class comments regarding the clothes are especially annoying since Elementary's Sherlock's wardrobe is so well used throughout season one to show the character's mental state. In the beginning he is alone, fresh out of rehab, and still in a terrible mental state over Irene's death. As the season progresses and Sherlock grows attachments with the Watson, Bell, and Gregson he begins to recover mentally and take care of himself. His dress improves to reflect that.
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It is kind of old, but my opinion after the first episode and now at almost the end of the second season is unchanged: Elementary is awesome!
Sherlock was hit and miss, and I don't think I would have kept watching if I wasn't a fan of the books.
Here's a terrible spoiler for you from s3, though: In the books it is a woman who kills this asshole blackmailer named Milverton, the equivalent character in Sherlock (Magnussen) is killed by Sherlock, despite the presence of a female assassin who is currently being blackmailed.
OTL @ Sherlock.
I don't think I'll be watching s4.
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Aha this is great. I absolutely love Elementary, and am planning on watching Sherlock. I'm actually writing a paper on the ridiculous rivalry between the two and how most of the arguments on the Sherlock side water down to "it's not set in London!" "Watson's not a girl!" and stupid things like that. Elementary's not perfect, but it is pretty awesome and not liking it for those reasons is super childish
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"Childish" is the nice way to put it. "Racist, sexist, eurocentric, classist" etc. can be applied to many of the arguments.
You also see a lot of false statements like "it's not accurate to the books! Their personalities are wrong! Who is Gregson?? Lestrade is the character from the book!" and you can clearly tell this is bullshitters who haven't read the books. XD
Going into Sherlock, I'll tell you that it's a bit more "drama" than "cop-drama" if you know what I mean. Also look out for massive eurocentrism and racist caricatures of Chinese people. It also never passes the Bechdel test (arguable with Irene and her assistant in one ep, but I don't count it as it indirectly is about a man)
To be fair, most shows are like this, so don't let it turn you off. It's got a great Holmes & Watson relationship, great Moriarty, and great Mycroft. It's also funny as heck, and they do really well with keeping the mysteries a mystery, except Ep 2 which was just plain stupid.
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Why people are referring to the books when comparing the shows when the setting and circumstances and societies are different is kind of ridiculous if you ask me.
Thanks for the heads-up on Sherlock. I'm trying to go in unbiased, but Elementary is so good about what I've heard is bad with Sherlock so who knows.
Also I want you to know I'll be using this in my paper, if that's okay with you.
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That's perfectly fine! It sounds pretty awesome being able to do a paper on Sherlock Holmes.
*turns back to own paper on block cave mining sadly*
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Alright, thanks! And it's certaintly interesting and makes up for the total pointlessness of the actual class.
And what is block cave mining and why do you have to write a paper on it
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It's a type of underground mining that involves exploding rock and making it cave down in a block like way, then throwing the ore on a conveyor belt to take it to surface.
I am a mining engineering student this is my life.
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That actually sounds pretty interesting yet boring at the same time. Also sounds like it'd be incredibly complicated to do without accidentally collapsing the cave.
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Yep. They shove meter long + bolts into tunnel walls/roof and then cover the whole thing in a concrete spray called shotcrete.
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Whoo. Sounds dangerous. But it's important stuff right so someone's gotta do it.
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Amen to that! I love both shows.
BBC´s Sherlock is a hilarious weirdo, but at times to much of an self-regarding asshole. While Watson and Lestrade are downgraded to sidekicks, who offer little to no resistance to Sherlocks antics. Compare that to Joan (equal partner) and Gregson (gut-punching Sherlock). On the other hand BBC got the best portrayals of Mycroft and Mrs. Hudson, I´ve ever seen and their Moriarty is a really frightening maniac. But Moriarty and Moran from "Elementary" are no slouchs either. Finally let's not forget that "Sherlock" copied several stylistic elements from the Richie movie itself, so you can hardly accuse "Elementary" to be a ripp-off.
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Thank you for expressing my feelings.
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I think the 'with no class' is a bit of an national/ethnic issue. They're in America, so clearly they lack class - not just in the "Everyone in America is Middle Class" sort of way, but in the "America is Trashy" sort of way. I can see where that opinion of America and Americans comes from, but as an American I also get extremely offended by it and pissed off when people judge me by my accent.
"The Blind Banker" was atrocious. Which is weird, because Thompson (I think that's his name?) did a really good job with "The Reichenbach Fall." I honestly think Gatiss does the best when it comes to interpretations. I hate Moffat's interpretations. I mean, I think "A Study in Pink" was pretty good, but he makes Sherlock look like an asshole and he does so much queer-baiting in both of his episodes. As someone who has read "A Scandal in Bohemia," "A Scandal in Belgravia" had me screeching through clenched teeth and pulling my hair out. Nonononononononononono. Incorrect. WRONG! I hate that episode...perhaps more than "The Blind Banker."
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I almost vomited for a second until I realized you were as offended as I about the issue of class. It comes in huge part from the "America is trashy" attitude some Brits and anglophiles have, but the comment I made was specifically made because of a post I saw that compared Sherlock BBC and Sherlock E to higher class and lower class clothing stores (based on what they wear).
That's pure judgement based on how much money the character is willing to spend on nice clothes, which is hugely classist against people who can't afford nice clothes. Fuck poor people, apparently thinks some Sherlock BBC fans.
You make an excellent point though that I didn't bring up about it being about stereotypes based on country.
Moffat is very much flash and no substance. I am eternally mad at him because he comes up with excellent twist endings and really clever mystery bits. As amazing as they are, it doesn't stop them from being heaping piles of hollow character development and sexism sexism sexism.
Normally I dig different interpretations of Irene Adler, and I definitely liked some parts of this one, but the bottom line is that she has to be on par with Holmes. Moffat clearly depicts her as not being so, instead her downfall comes because she is an "emotional woman" blaaaa
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ata. Sherlock BBC Não é ruim, nem se compara as duas séries.
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Just saw elementary finale, fuck yeah it beats sherlock ! You art is so cool x3
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I find them about equally as cool! Definitely Elementary was a lot more down-to-Earth than Sherlock. Thank you!
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Help me.
It took me a while to get into Sherlock (I had to wait to come home for the summer because I didn't have netflix at college)
but now I'm super-super-obsessed!
Now I'm hungry for some Elementary . . . but, I just can't get into it yet. But still want to try it. Just don't know where to jump in.
And, Sherlock is . . . comeon! Sherlock! All is branches of a fun fandom!
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There's only one season, feel free to jump in from the very beginning!
And there's nothing wrong with disliking Elementary; some people just don't like the cop-drama formula. (The original books basically started that formula) Sherlock is more of just straight drama then a buddy cop style show. It's okay if that's your dig.
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I am in love with this comic masterpiece. I don't understand why anyone could hate of Elementary for making Watson a woman- and an Asian woman at that. I love Lucy Liu anyway and I think she did well as a Watson that banters with Holmes. And how does anyone say Elementary doesn't dress their characters well? They all live in modern-day New York, so they can dress stylishly in chic clothes (especially Watson in those miniskirts...<3).
I realize I am making this Watson-biased please excuse I'm sorry
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It's okay, you are not the only one who is Watson-biased.
Lucy Liu is basically a queen.
Anyway, yeah, one thing Elementary has achieved is that it has never made me uncomfortable. Like, in Sherlock when they have sexualized Irene Adler scenes, or EVERY TIME they use terms like "high functioning sociopath" incorrectly. That whole thing with Henry Knight made me deeply uncomfortable.
So yeah! Both shows have their pros and cons, and there are definitely areas where Elementary excels, so it grosses me out when people hop all up on Sherlock BBC's dick. Thanks for agreeing!
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But.... In the original books Sherlock actually dressed well
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My God. A man dressing well in Victorian London? That's literally every man with a decent income!
Besides, the books never really made a point to how well Sherlock was dressed. Hell, he wears several disguises in the books, including that of a poor man, and never seemed bothered.
It bothers me that Sherlock fans think their show is better because of reasons such as how he dresses. Can you think of how offensive that is to people who can't afford to wear $1000+ coats? "I'm better than you because I dress better" it a classist argument, and doesn't deserve any consideration.
Both shows are modern adaptions that focused on different parts of book-canon. They are both good in their own way but I find that Sherlock BBC has a lot more problems with how racist/sexist/classist it can be and Elementary has been exceptionally awesome on those fronts. Hell, they made Mrs. Hudson into Ms. Hudson, a transwoman!
Feel free to try the show and hate on it if you have a problem with cop dramas, etc., but don't go thinking that it's a worse show for any prejudiced reason while trying to claim it's 'original book canon'.
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Despite the fact that I'm a sherlock fan, I'm simply pointing out the fact that the suits are somewhat canon. I'm not saying that elementary is any better or worse because of it.
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Modern day suits like seen in BBC Sherlock =/= Victorian London suits, so I don't know what you're getting at, then.
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just... eh forget it. the point is that even if I get into Elementary, Sherlock will always hold a special place in my heart
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Love the comic! I watched both and I think BOTH have their ups and downs. (Sherlock's script and Elementary's characterization for me-- both ups) I don't really like the fact the Sherlock fans bash Elementary JUST BECAUSE of the "physical appearance", I've had a bunch of Sherlock fans tell me Elementary sucked just because. And they haven't even WATCHED it yet.
Anyway, again, awesome comic! 
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"Elementary is homophobic because they made Watson a woman so they aren't gay together"
is the worst most recent argument I've seen.
It would be totally acceptable as an argument if they were canon gay together in the books or even in Sherlock BBC, but nopers it's all just queer-baiting and subtext. Queer-baiting of course being worse than blatant homophobia since the writers are making it 'gay enough' to pander to the fans but will never actually go that extra mile.
Anyway I don't think the fandom hate will ever die down. Ah well I shall just continue to enjoy both shows without their consent.
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Oh god, that reason annoyed me a lot-- since yes, they're not gay in canon, they just have a great partnership.
And who says Sherlock and Joan can't have a great partnership just because John is now Joan? John isn't a love interest, and so is Joan. I can't believe the fans are all looking at it in a romantic angle. (though, there's no harm in shipping JohnLock OR JoanLock, the fandom hate is just blegh)
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Haha, yeah, and responding with "Actually, you're just sexist" gets the most hilarious responses.
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I was pretty skeptical when Elementary was announced, however that's more because of how bad the track record is for American remakes (let's be honest, a lot of them suck). And I now the same can be said for a lot of British Sherlock fans when Elementary was first aired (the US Inbetweeners advert had just come out and we were still bashing our heads against a wall at it) however though I haven't see a full episode yet I have seen clips and they look pretty good
Personally, I'd love to have a estate version of Sherlock, Holmes and Waston are both unemployed black young men whose genius is overlooked because of their background giving the last twenty quid they have to bribe a police officer for information. Mrs Hudson is the kind neighbor who checks up on them, Lestrade is the officer who gives them information for free, and so on.
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It is pretty good. A lot of people don't like it because it feels like "just another crime drama" but dude... That's what the books are?? BBC Sherlock kind of threw out that original formula and made it more action-packed and just straight up drama.
Not that that's a bad thing, but the same people turn around and laud BBC for being so accurate to the books and blablabla but I mean really.
I probably just like it so much because I DO like crime dramas. 
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How to Tell Someone is From Tumblr
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First Slide: Me when Elementary was announced.
Second Slide: After Watching a couple of episodes.
Third Slide: Me presently in love with Elementary.
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As soon as I heard Lucy Liu was in it I thought it would be da bomb.
And now?
It is da bomb.
I hope they do bring in Lestrade later and we can finally get some three-way rivalry between Holmes, Gregson, and Lestrade b/c that was one of my favorite things in the books.
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(sorry for the butthurt bbc fans) i haven't seen elementary, but this is very cute nontheless!
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THANK YOU. This is exactly how I feel about both shows! Also, great art- I love how you drew Cumberbatch!Sherlock and Miller!Sherlock squeeing over bees~
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I'm digging how I'm not eating my words because Elementary is turning into an awesome show.
I love the latest episodes. Holmes is all like "WATSON IF YOU LEAVE I'M REPLACING YOU WITH BEES DON'T GO WATSON DON'T LEAVE ME"
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And when Holmes asks what his dad said Watson was like OH YEAH I'M TOTALLY STICKING AROUND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. The makings of a true companionship right there.
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Haha yeah I just picture her thought process:
Watson: Mr. Holmes, I'd like to stay longer bc I'm worried about your son...
Daddy Holmes: NOPE TAKE YOUR MONEY AND GO.
Watson: DID I SAY I NEEDED YOUR CONSENT?
*to Sherlock*
C'MON BUDDY BRO LET'S GO SOLVE CRIMES.
Sherlock:
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