Beast-King In reply to ilolamai [2009-12-16 16:56:49 +0000 UTC]

No problem, a good collection of pictures, like yours, deserves to be watched^^

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Beast-King In reply to RoninRaimi [2009-06-21 22:50:29 +0000 UTC]

eh, yes?

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-28 20:44:27 +0000 UTC]

Cool ya. I have created a profile and everything.
So, who is everyone? I got you and Ray, but what about Tommy boy? is he there yet?

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-02-15 20:05:37 +0000 UTC]

well, it's going. i'm writing on it little by little each day.
How so? And what's up in your life?

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-02-21 19:10:09 +0000 UTC]

Just showing an interest, ya know

Anyways, not much happening in my life. Currently watching something which I doubdt is something. Crap, Forget it, Pc fucked up, can't see what O'm writing. See ya.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-02-24 16:18:44 +0000 UTC]

Hmm, okay...
Oh, by the way. Do you have a suggestion for sources of inspiration for a Mage campaign. I'm taking WoD here. The storyteller, not me actually, is rather new and I was thinking of what to suggest for him to watch/read etc. to get inspiration from. I'm talking movies, series, stuff like that.
Harry Potter would probably not be a good choice, right?

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-04 20:08:09 +0000 UTC]

Yooo! Sorry for late reply- Harry Potthead not a goos choice. The pot-head-universe is in dire lack of consequence. They wield magic like there will be no repercussion. And that is the essence of mage. You got power, but what is the real cost of using it.. Even if it might not affects you directly some one will be affected. Think of The hurricane Katrina, there supposedly was a crazed mage doing some major spell works someplace. So I think you should check out a movie named "The covenant". It's not the best "mage" movie of times. But you get a feel of personal repercussion, which is great.

If the chronicle is not supposed to be about "personal horror" as the general theme of World of Darkness is. Repercussion is not of essence, and the players won't bother too much. As long as we won't cause a major flood/earthquake/hurricane or accidentally commit mass murder as a aftermath of some spells... All is well, is it not?

I don't really have many suggestions for sources of inspiration for a Mage Chronicle... Seeing I'm a Champion of Blood, not of the Arcane. But simple is often the best, so just settle with some problems that would be plausible in real life. The car crash where this million dollar business man died, wasn't there something off with that incident? throw in a motif, it does not need to be too elaborate, but it will be the second you put some magi in the mix. It's very simple, small things tend to evolve into grand schemes spanning wast distances and ages. What if that now departed business man sold his soul to the wrong guys. Now somehow they have his fortune boosting their arsenal and capability to plot on.

Just bear in mind that the repercussions and weaknesses created by White-Wolf is there for a reason, not to hinder players or stories. They are there as a tool to create story. This is very important to remember. IF you had to do a powerful spell in order to stop some gruesome things to happen, that spell might result in another happening of dire consequence, witch sometimes makes people choose between two evils. Hopefully they choose the lesser one. Allso, paradox can be exploited to your advantage, witch also make for great story building. What if someone does a bad ass spell, and you all rush forth to stop it. Maybe it will annihilate the whole downtown area. Or maybe a loved one is the sacrifice. When you arrive the scene you learn unfortunately when it it too late that it was not the effect of the spell itself that was desired, but the paradox it created. Ahh, yes, I feel it now. I think maybe I've underestimated the whole Mage line.

Hope some of my ramblings helped you somewhat, tho I fear you may already have finished the chronicle. I've been so busy, I've bought all the clan books for vampire, the Circle of the Crone book, the Carthian Book, Damnation City book, The blood, The Mythologies book, Ghouls book... Hmm, yeah. That sums it up thus far. And boy I read all of them many times over. I'm planning on Buying the Invictus book and the Lance Sanctum soon. Hahah, I'm starting to become a walking Vampire wiki

That said, I'm not the best source for ideas when it comes to mage, but if you ever need anything for a vamp chronicle do not hesitate to look me up.

Btw, how's that chronicle of your friend's holding up?

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-13 10:49:37 +0000 UTC]

His campaign is going slowly I hear. He's stuck on some planning thing. I'll be sure to pass on your...longass message to him. Hopefully it helps.
I really hope he will be able to make the game more about horror and reprecussions for power than I managed to.
In my defence, my campaign was very mixed. We had two mages, two vampires( one of them from the Masqerade. Malcovian or something) and one human. That is until one of the vampires died(!?!) and he rerolled a Changeling of all things.
It kinda became a very powerful party very soon, particularly since I raped the exp rules and never bothered reading the paradox rules.
The only real trouble they had was three snipers and one guy with a rocket launcher. Not the countless zombies, vampires, mages or werewolves I had thrown at them earlier.
A bit agrivating for a storyteller that, knowing nothing can stand up to the party.
Oh and the human was a Hunter with the Cryokinesis power. So even the human wasn't normal.
The horror aspect vanished really quickly after the mages started spamming shields and damage spells.

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King-Radical-II In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 10:52:30 +0000 UTC]

Dude, you cant raep the paradox rule, it's verrrrry central, basically no spells can be cast when a human is watching, if done regardless hell would be unleashed, or worse.

Sounds like you'd do a better D&D champaign with them than a W&D you need to put some sort of limiter on their powers, involve innocent life, or maybe have an ultimate bad-guy give them an ultimatum of some sort, hostages works fine - it doesnt sound like your guys are that horrorific'ish.

And good luck with that quandry, do poke when you gots some info :3

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Beast-King In reply to King-Radical-II [2009-04-15 15:05:47 +0000 UTC]

heh, well that campaign is over. The good thing is that they would have been slaugtered by the final boss dude, he had like 7 in gnosis and several soul stones.
But of course, my character was better. the last battle was mostly "cinematic" anyway.
But yeah, i screwed up. Which is why I'm holding a D&D campaign next time I'm a storyteller.
Got any ideas for a good forest campaign? i was thinking treasure hunting until they become involved in a war. The characters are rather badass...they have, in my oppinion, raped the rules, but...

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 20:16:53 +0000 UTC]

huh... I'm starting to see a pattern here. Rule raping and power play can be fun.. But all the time? Then you will miss out on this scenario:

The bad ass worrior, makes all of you suck his dick... Then you all swear revenge on his poor hide. Alas you are not powerful enough, so you need to become strong ( this is actually a great story as to why the character is driven onwards. Revenge) So, when due time comes, you all make him suck your dicks. Great plot.. no? Well, I hope you see my point?

Forest eh? Well, firstly determine why they should be out in the forrest would be one thing, also making them stay there is another.

As to the war... Maybe the one faction is loosing, and a quite powerful veteran came out in the forest to die.. Maybe from his wounds? And tells you to give this message to that guy and bring his belongings to his widow when he has finally passed over. The guys that you want to pass the message over to, might link to the war itself. And maybe the widow is a mage that quit maging around quite a while ago, but she has secrets and knowledge. Maybe even she offers the group his belongings if they help her out dealing whit some ass-wanker.. Maybe the widows quest leads to a mission behind enemy lines, and depending on which of the quests you do first the group uncovers evidence that one of them is actually a traitor, maybe even one of the folks igniting the gust of war.

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Boehlke In reply to King-Radical-II [2009-04-15 12:05:06 +0000 UTC]

yeah, what he said. It is all in there for a reason: BALANCE. Balance is importent, or else the game turns into a wild fire fest, without precussion.

Anyways, I hope our rambling will help you and your friend out... I'm curious as to what he thinks of what we have written. It is some basic "rules" which is wise to follow atleast.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-14 21:34:43 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I too power tripped us when we played. It was our first time with that game, so I think we got a great excuse. We had to make the most of the game the little time we could play it.

Still, what you said about three snipers and a rocket launcher... Gee man, a story should never escalate to that. Sniper is as good as one shot kill, and a rocket luncher? That's one-shot-fucking-mass-overkill. What kind story where you palying? You fucked the masquerade so badly you got the army after you? That's military grade fucking swap gear you are talking about.. How on earth did you guys survive? If you did I suspect that was the STs doing, not the chance of die, am I correct?

The Horror part is difficult to handle, especially if the players don't take it seriously. Terror and horror craves seriousness... Now, I'm not saying don't have fun. It's like us, when we played, at first everything was a mess, Fuck that, shoot that, dry that one up, kick ass. That works for a while, and I think we got the seriousness and the horror right at the end. You guys grew in power way too fast, even though I did not give you that much XP, there is to be said that we played a long time, so that might have something to say, but I don't think I ever gave more than 10 at any given point, except that time we skipped time, and you got a boost. When I noticed things went south with that power play, I tried to level things out a bit, first the 1 vs 3 ratio, still you guys kept shredding those poor sons of bitches up. Sp In the final session I had to use the Prince and Sheriff and Hound template, now, the ratio was 2 vs 3, and Rays character almost died. I have to add that I made a poor choice as a ST in the final session, cause I held back when I played the enemy, sometimes I overruled the chance of dice that your enemies got, so that the damage they dealt where somewhat capped. I never used their fullest potential. I think things would be different, more player casualties that is. But at the end I let go and thought I killed Ray, but no he's a though guy.. What I try to prove is that power-play kills thrill, suspense and horror. What's scary when you know you could rip a monsters jaw bone out, and shove it back into its eye sockets in an blink of an eye?

Anyways, one should really stick to what the book says about dealing XP.

There is a lot of "powerful" ways to use the lesser levels of disciplines or what the other game lines call their specialties. Let's say that the city you play in has 70 vamps, if you start the Chronicle as a 1 year vamp, than she is probably among the lower 10 power vise. Now... "power" is a loose term. She might not be able to dominate someone to kill their enemies, they might also not be very efficient at subterfuge(yet). Where I am getting at is that, even if your coterie can't make a fuzz physically, you gotta do it the social way, not all goals can be successfully achieved via physical means. The ST should let the players get other small folks to their cause, maybe as assets that while you sleep during the day, you can role play to a certain extent during your time "off-line". This could be done as simple as: "he does that, goes there, and meets those". Assets don't even need to be ghouls. If you helped that poor doctor hide his accident, maybe he will be glad to pay you back. Also, if the characters simply is socially dumb(all power spec), then don't use die as much, talk the talk, walk the walk. If the ST deems your pints and pointus good or convincing then it's a success.

So, as I have said (now being afraid that I've been repeating myself over and over) DO not power-play, find other routs to accomplish your goals. this is WOD not D&D after all.

Also as a final note to this way too long post; Playing crossover games are hard, there is a lot of rules. And the elements that create suspense, horror and afterthought are often left out. As we did, do you remember us rolling one single humanity check? I don't... And I'm the fucking ST! At least when playing cross-over, try keep it to max two game lines, only three if you got two ST's and they know each line very well, and both has a basic understanding of the third. Yes, yes, the books state "Screw the rules, the important thing is to have fun" That is ofcourse true, but you got to remember that rules as they are called is not something that traps you in a box. Rules are tools to create story, suspense and horror, which this game is all about. If you don't like horror or a game that encourages use of diplomacy and subterfuge go play D&D.

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King-Radical-II In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-15 10:56:08 +0000 UTC]

effin' A with those templates, knocked me into torpor damnitalltohell!

And whats up with rocket launchers? sounds like someone's been fucking not only the masquerade but also the Veil deep in the bum bum, dum dums. Learn caution.

Sheesh, and we did kick some ass back then yeah, but we also used a good part of strategy and clever enviroment, having our wolf guy try to kick the door in and -missed- with a 1 roll, that's just horrible.

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Beast-King In reply to King-Radical-II [2009-04-15 15:53:35 +0000 UTC]

I know, but damn, nothing could kill the motherfuckers. DAMN.
I had to throw in something, and they were in a army base.
And I agree, they had little strategy or thought for the secrecy of the whole. And the two mages, which were the worst when thinking "non-secrecy" were both from the fricking Guardians-of-the-Veil. They didn't even follow their own order.
I was just so frustrated that I sent several snipers and shit on them. And you know what.
They survived.
EVery fucking one of them survived.
the snipers didn't.
Unfuckingbeliavable.
Eirik for one, was very lucky. Had he rolled one less on his (overused) unseen shield, or my sniper dude had rolled one more on his shot, then his head would have been blown in.
All in all, the total party death toll was one vampire who GRAPPLED a werewolf and two NPCs. Can you believe it?
So, in acording to their powerlvl, any horror parts were laughable.
They did become a bit frightened when I brought in spirits though. They had no chance against those.
So they ran away.
...

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 22:08:22 +0000 UTC]

I also have to add that, I think that if you where to ST a new WOD Chronicle you would do very good. You got to ST a round before knowing what to do and what not to do. So, I hope you won't let WOD dust away just yet. You learned so much ST'ing that chronicle I'd want to be one of your players once.

Idea: Sit down with the players tell them about what mood and level of seriousness you have in mind for the game, and ask them if that is ok. If you are a relatively large group and a few of them ruin the game for the others by joking all the time/doing OOC things all the time, kick them. Or if the whole group thinks you are a bit too serious, lighten things up a bit.

My impression is that the players you played with had not done WOD before, most probably played D&D right? The transition between D&D and WOD is a hard one, most D&D games are light-hearted-short-stories. So, if the players won't fit into the grim mood of WOD, don't bother. You could just as easily play dark characters in the D&D universe.

Now, I only wrote so much on this subject because I felt like you where trying to play a half-serious-horror-story, and I really wanted to help you as much as I can, because this game require more seriousness than D&D if you are going to play it as it was meant by the creators.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-15 22:34:58 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I learned a lot. I actually am looking forward to the next time I ST a WoD campaign. Hopefully it won't be too long. I have a few ideas but I am not sure if I should pick Vampire or Werewolf or Mage. I like Vampire, because they have power, but not too much, they are sort of stuck in the middle between humans and the other shady things, like werewolves and such. Werewolf I'm not so sure. it would be a challenge not for the game to decend into a rage induced bloodfest, a challenge I don't know if I would bother with. Mage is rather perplexing. Humans with incredible power but who are still humans. Lots of storyhooks for a dark, damp and dangerous campaign here, but again I worry that it will decend into powerfesting.
I don't want a Hunter campaign or a Prometean or Changeling and a plain human would be a bit...too close for comfort, if you know what I mean. I could probably take a human campaign, but with rather good use of the psychic section of the Second Sight book. Have you read the powers there? Not as awesome as the Vampire or Mage powers, but damn, some are very useful and quite powerful too. Only downside is they cost a willpower point per use, which is hard to regain. But it fits with the theme, I guess.
As I said, I'm planning a forest campaign, and I try to sit down with the players and talk about the game, but distractions keep coming up. I just have to be firmer, I guess.
Yes, most, if not everyone except me have only played D&D before. Two even hadn't played a RPG before. That transition is hard, and you can't have a WoD game and a D&D game running at the same time, that is too distracting.
I just got an idea. the players start out as humans. I tell them to make a group of friends, college flat mates or something. then all of a sudden, I turn them all into vampires and set them loose in the world, with only the laws of the masqerade imbedded into their minds.
I wouldn't even tell the players they would become vampires, I would even choose what clan each becomes.
Damn, this could work. Imagine the confusion and horror at suddenly being turned into something alien, something you thought was fiction.
I'm getting eager already.
mohahha....

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 23:05:27 +0000 UTC]

yeah man, I think you have a neat starter there. Reminds me of what I did in my head. I allied myself with my one player, making him a vamp a few sessions ingame, all started human. I gave him enough knowledge to know what would benefit him. And so while the game went on, the others started noticing him only tagging along at night, and that sort of stuff what. Then he would have to try to explain it away (subterfuge and all that) If he where a ventrue, then things would be even easier. After a while he would bind them under vinculum, so that when they finally learned the truth, they where essentially his ghouls, that making them oblivious to the truth, all they want is offcourse his love and recognition.

Any way you choose, I think Starting off as Human would be awesome!

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-16 13:12:21 +0000 UTC]

Vinculum?
Yeah, I really like that idea, so I've already started the planning. *laughs*
This should be fun.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-16 17:13:38 +0000 UTC]

Oh, wait. Was that a question... Like: "I don't know what Vinculum is"?

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-16 21:55:12 +0000 UTC]

uhu, I don't know what Vinculum is. And you, bragging about your awesome Vampire knowledge, should be able to explain it to me, right?

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-17 08:18:06 +0000 UTC]

Haha, ehh. Yes. You know that rumor of dracula's? "Drink three times and become like me"?

There is something to that. It won't make you a vamp offcourse, but it will enslave the one who drinks one stage at a time, until the third time the subject has a unconditional "love" towards the vamp. At stage three the subject is essensially a slave, gladly doing all for it's masters biddings...

What is funny is that drinking the stuff probably is paralel to sex for a mortal, and after a couple drinks there is a chance for severe addiction, that combined with awe/respect/some-sort-a-love" that follows makes you fucking powerless when trying to oppose the vamp in question. The dubject might not even know why he feels like it, he might not even know what happens at all. If you feed the mortal while in sleep, he won't know it is your doing. The vinculum works exactly the same way on vamps too.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-17 14:33:28 +0000 UTC]

So, if a vamp slips some of his blood into a mortals food three times, the mortal will be his slave?
There is a storyhook in there...somewhere...

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-17 15:02:14 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, exactly. Only problem with that, is that the blood while outside the vampiric body looses its properties rapidly, we are talking minutes here (3-5). But it sure can be done that way too.

One of the first stages may be of greater use, because then they are able to think more clarely on their own, which can be of great use, or a grave danger to the kindred involved. This effect is just temporarly, so in a matter of weeks or perhaps months it wears out and the mortals attitude towards you revert to what it was before, or if you made her do explicit things, you might find her more angtagonistic and such. When the effect wears out she get abstinenses, and most likely (dependig of what degree she is bound) want more.

At degree 1 she might not even know she is under a vinculum.

At level 2 she might think her feelings are strange and all, the vamp might be a total stranger after all, and feeling so intimat to a stranger is not usual. But she might dismiss it all believing she is simply falling hard as hell for the guy.

At stage 3, it really does not matter what the subject thinks. She is yours to do whatever might please you, and she would not hessitate one secound, allthough I doubdt she'd go kill herself if you told her to. At stage 3 she is esencially a state of beeing called Ghoul. Ghouls, if not fed reguarly start having leathal abstinenses.

So, not feeding the victim at lower levels until the abstinenses are evident helps keep her at that level.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-18 08:24:01 +0000 UTC]

Hmm, how would that work if I had a NPC vamp feed one or more of the players? Story and RP wise.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-18 15:09:47 +0000 UTC]

Well, Firstly you need excellent RPers, they need to understand the effects of vinculum and how your character is affected.

There is nothing stopping you from having an elder enslave the whole coterie, but vinculum is something vamps generally fear. It is a powerful mind control tool.

If one has been plotting towards you, in a manner that have hurt you direly, you take it up with the Prince, and at Elysium the Prince Decides that due to the nature of the crime, maybe there was a minor masquerade breach, and as the traditions also prohibits the murder of another kindred, the subject has broken two of the three traditions. Therefor he is sentenced to 30 hits on his back with a steel spiked whip in front of everyone at the Elysium. He is also forced to consume the blood of the one he sought to hurt/destroy. This bond makes it harder for him to hurt the subject. The prince may decree that if he where to break any of the traditions again, he would be beat into torpor, then re-awakened and forced to drink more of the blood of the offender.
The Prince in this example is of course very forgiving.

So, how would the players feel if you do that to their characters? Beeing bound, unable to do what you want or say what you feel is unreasonable the players most likely say. But it is not their concern, it's the characters. They don't feel it that way. Sure the character hated the guy before, but now after he drank his infernal blood, he just feels sorry for the basterd, maybe there is something with him you just never saw before, all wars have two sides after all. See where I'm getting at?

The biggest danger is misuse of OOC knowledge. Maybe you don't want them to know what the blood does to them? I did that once, slipped a note to my brother while playing, explaining all about the vinculum, him being a sympathizing Ventrue, he offerd to loan some of his blood to my GF's character because she was getting way too hungry to operate safe, and he was not. Then I had to describe subtly how her characters view towards brothers character turned slightly. I never got to do this in our Chronicle, I can just imagine what Lasse would say: "META PLAY!!!!". Even though it is not.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-16 13:17:36 +0000 UTC]

Cool, I hope you share some of it with me . I really enjoy reading others chronicles

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 21:38:07 +0000 UTC]

Wait wait wait. A player grappled a werewolf and two other simultaneously!?
That is fucking-unbelievable! What god damn stats did he have? Grappling one opponent is hard enough, it is a contested roll after all. Trying to grapple two would impose max penalty -5. And three at once? - 10? Fucking-unbelievable!

That is so hilarious I envy you your witness of that. I have to give you credits for hanging in throughout the whole chronicle though. I think I'd scrapped the whole thing pretty quick... Unless of course the point was to have fun ONLY.

I'm glad you said this: "So, in acording to their powerlvl, any horror parts were laughable." It shows neatly that power + horror don't mix. Especially if it is a poor player, or a player with little knowledge of how the character feels. With great power comes grave consequences, which RULES helps emulate.

Examples (I can only draw from knowledge from Vampire, but it works the same way in alle the game linses)

Dominate at level 5. and all governing attributes maxed, and the player dominates everyone she meets into doing her bidding... What would that character be like? Don't you think the humanity would suffer direly? And when used to getting her will, when finally opposed, that would probably result in anger.

Animalism level 5, and all governing attributes maxed. The palyer always calls for the aid of animals, and forces any vampire antagonist to flee her sight by the use of the 5th dot, which allows her control over her own and others beasts. This would lead her down a path with dwindling humanity and bestiality. When the attempt at making the antagonist flee fails, she too would be furious that her sovereignty is not upheld.

Obfuscate level 5 and all governing attributes and skills maxed. The player is using obfuscate massively, trespassing, violating other mortals and vampires, this allows her to see all the flaws in people and vampires, seeing that hot model picking her nose and eating the bugger, seeing all the perversion that happens all around: rape/adultery/incest/child abuse/etc,etc. What would that do to a person? what would it do to his view on humanity?

This leads to a point that shows how important morality/humanity and the other similar traits is so important in the games. Playing overpowered boost the downward spiral. So, by not raping the XP thingie, the longevity of the game is ensured.

As a final note:

In the examples I wrote "players" not characters, this is important. It is an RPG after all, if you want to play the real deal, you actually have to role-play that god damn character. Unfortunately bad players screw role play along the floor, up the walls all the way up to the ceiling.

Also, when you said you where so frustrated that you had to resort to 3 snipers and a cannon, you got to look at the XP dealings you had, but I guess you already figured that out.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-15 21:58:49 +0000 UTC]

did I say he grappled three people? Sorry. No, it was only(!?!) a werewolf.
In Gauru form.
In the shadow world.
...yeah...
he was litterally ripped to shreds. I didn't even roll that one, as he was half dead already.
I totally get you man. There is something called ethics, and besides, Spiderman does have a point with the whole 'great power=gread responsobility' thingy. Since the dude who is ST of our upcoming Mage campaign was a student of ethics along with me, I hope he brings in some real ethical questions, like kill one man to save a family and such.
By the way, ethical questions and statements are really fun to discuss. I am part of a small gang at NTNU and we often discuss what is right and wrong and such.
Often while playing Magic.
back to your points, I would have called for humanity rolls long before things reached the point you pressed. With that much power and skill, the character should know how to use it properly. This is no neonite we are talking about, unless the sire is fricking Dracula, or even better, Cain (or is it Kain?)
One of the things I miss when I play both WoD and D&D is the roleplay, the getting into character. When I make a character, I often write a A4 sheet with background and personal things about the character, to help me be more in character, but most of the group I'm with just laugh me out when I suggest it. It is sometimes tough to roleplay when the ST (or DM) doesn't put up to it. For instance, one of the DMs I'm playing with now hardly describes the suroundings at all, and almost never draws a map or a overview, like you did with all those houses and bars. That makes it really hard to roleplay, since we can't fricking imagine how it looks around us.
And another thing that hampers roleplay, in D&D at least. When travelling, it is often:
"We set up camp. I roll a survival check to light a fire, eat some of my rations and lie down on my bedroll. Next morning..."
or even more often:
"We got to slepp. Next morning..."
It pisses me off. There's a ton of roleplay to be done there, that is cut out to get to the action. Which kind of takes away the point of carefully making characters with dept and history and personality.

Oh and I realised I had fucked up long before I resorted to the snipers. But by then, it was too late, as the players hadn't really deserved a XP penalty or anything.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-16 10:52:31 +0000 UTC]

Ah, ok. Then I missunderstood. Grappling three at once sounded like suicide, and when one of them where a wherewolf in Gauru form.. Hah, well, that makes it even worse. Good he died. Stupidity should be punished to some degree

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-16 13:23:38 +0000 UTC]

yeah, he died hard. Anyone who grapples a Gauru is asking for that, except another Gauru or a Spirit or something.
But a Vampire, even if he was a Gangrel, is just asking to become mincemeet.
It was a rather spectacular fight though.
and very messy.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-16 17:04:39 +0000 UTC]

hahaha, yeah, I'd imagine.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-15 22:23:41 +0000 UTC]

I am sad to hear that your group is bad RP'ers. What do they think they are doing? In one WOD book they state "there are no bad players, only bad ST's". They are right to some extent, a bad ST causes bad RP, (Just like the DM you just described). But in that DM's game there sure as hell are bad players as well, just like in your chronicle. If a player is unable to get into the character, there is no use.

Why they would laugh at you because you suggest creating a back story, really kills me to hear. A back story creates character depth as you say, and that is so darn important. What back story also does is helping the player to understand the character, how he would react and so forth. Back story with the help of virtue and vice is actually a template for character behavior. Once that is in place, anyone is able to Role-play the damn character.

And yes, ethics are good fictional building stones.

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Beast-King In reply to Boehlke [2009-04-16 13:22:21 +0000 UTC]

The creation of a backstory is not what they laugh at me for, it is the writing down part that they find stupid. "We have the character's story in our head", they say.
Right, and what when they forget certain parts of the backstory?
I've seen characters start out with one personality and have a completely diffrent one a couple of sessions later, because the player forgot the backstory and personality.
When I'm a DM, or ST, next time, I will really punish bad RP and silly OOCness. Our dear Mr. Ray had a good idea with the "Out of game is in game" thing, as that forced us to remain focused on the game, and not other stuff.
What really bugs me with the current campaign I'm playing in, is that the DM, who uses a laptop for his monsters and book and stuff, is also surfing the internett when he is DMing, more spesifically when we are RPing. It really kills the mood when he suddenly starts laughing about some online comic he's reading while we are having a deep RP bout in HIS game.
This is a D&D game, so RP is probably not as important as in WoD, but it still pisses me off. And no matter what, he won't stop surfing, says he uses it for 'inspiration'.
Bullfuckingshit!!
And he never plans, always improvising. In his game, he asked me to be a double agent, to dubble cross the party in the final boss fight. Sure, cool with me, at least its original...sorta...as we haven't done that yet. But it was just so out of nowhere and didn't fit with the background of my character at all. I went from a lawful good wandering dragonhunter to a evil machine worshiper...
I just don't know what to say about that, really. I guess I needed to get that of my chest.
Anyway, in my future games, I will do my best to stay in character as much as possible. Lead by example, ya know.
Hopefully it will work.

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Boehlke In reply to Beast-King [2009-04-16 17:04:16 +0000 UTC]

Okay, yeah, I thought they thought the idea of back story. Great thing they get that much, eh? hehe.

Exactly my point too, you should have the back story written, because as you pointed out, as the mood changes somewhat ingame(not the characters, but the atmosphere of the game)from scene to scene, that kind of affects the mood of the players (not atmosphere). So therefore having it written, helps you play the character more accurate.

I'd say you should make the players turn off phones. If one say he is expecting a phone call, tell him he have to play or not (ultimatum, for that session only offcourse), the group as a whole should not suffer because of one persons bad choice. (When you are busy you are busy, tell people you can't be reached when you play) Ban usage of laptop for palyers, you as a ST should only confer with books, as that helps you not getting side-tracked.Atmospheric music is offcourse exception, but while you are waiting for the players to finish whatever, the laptop becomes so darn tempting to use to burn away the dead time, but this is something you should avoid all together.

And to what Ray came up with: I was annoyed for a long time of his OOC crap, but I after some thought I saw I was too strict, you guys obviously wanted to joke a bit and have some fun ingame too. So in order to appease that "lust" for fun, that was simply great. I mean, mostly the joking we did OOC, had to do about something about what happened ingame. So, In hollywood movies you got these bad ass characters, kicking ass and spewing witty comments all the time. So, why shouldn't we? Hell, I agree to that. Also, later in game we would simply have our random OOC chatter that would not be about our selves ingame. That was great too, small talk helps boning after all, and that I believe the characters did.

Planning is very important, I can't say I get that GM of yours at all. Now, you mustn't plan too much, because things often turn out different than you thought, but you need to have a solid rock foundation for a game, Plots, characters, places. These three things need to be thought out before the actual game, or else there will be little depth, and depth is so darn important.

Also, he clearly shows poor judgment as a GM, you can't make players do things their characters would not do. That is not role-play. If I where you I'd refuse. Sure he would probably make someone else do it, or simply enforce his GM dominion craving you to do it. But if you had said no, he had blown his shot, and would have to scrap that idea. If he had not been sitting there constantly jerking off to his computer, he'd probably noticed what your character was like, and never asked you in the first place.

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