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rpgkipp
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[9724301]
[2009-02-18 22:13:16 +0000 UTC]
"Gabe"
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# Statistics
Favourites: 43; Deviations: 0; Watchers: 0
Watching: 0; Pageviews: 2358; Comments Made: 107; Friends: 0
# Comments
Comments: 95
Dude, theres a cool atlternative history map by Demon of Chaos, just type in America 1914. If you dont find it, i'll give you another name.
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Many thank-yous for faving "Rorschach in Gotham: Intro" ! Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
: Hurm. : Purr.
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No problem. It's a great pic. So are your other Rorschach in Gotham pics.
I'd never think of putting Catwoman and Rorschach together, but now that I think about it they look great together.
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Yes, I do. I have a "Rorschach in Gotham" folder in my gallery due to it's popularity in my gallery. I'm currently working on writing a fiction up 'cause everyone's been poking me to do so. 
As for Catwoman and Rorschach together, I admit it seems strange yet it works. They both have very similar backgrounds: They were both neglected and abused as children, they were thrown in an orphanage, they both had to survive out on the streets by their wits, they both have expertise in gymnastics and boxing, they're both loners, morally ambiguous, with good hearts, who live by their own personal codes.
Rorschach in Gotham, at its heart, is a character study of him, peeling the layers and revealing more and more of his character as he faces Batman's Rogues' Gallery. With Poison Ivy, it's control. With Scarecrow, fear. Mad Hatter, childhood innocence. Two-Face, duality and morality. Joker, sanity. Catwoman, it's sexuality -- the subject he completely tries to avoid. Also, Catwoman represents a gray area in Rorschach's otherwise black-and-white life, where the line between good and evil blurs, which I feel he needs to explore more (whether he likes it or not). She's kind of a female version of himself — another dark creature that prowls the night, yet different enough to clash and make things in interesting. I like the strangely delicious sexual tension that rises between an ultra-sexual, flippantly playful Catwoman and a virginal, all-too-serious Rorschach. These two....they just make sense!
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Batman's method of handing criminals to the police versus Rorschach's method of just killing them would also make for some interesting tension.
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I mentioned this in the "Paging the Batman" piece in Rorschach in Gotham. Batman and Rorschach, if they met, wouldn't get a long at all. Rorschach would consider Batman too soft, while Batman would consider Rorschach too harsh. Then stick Catwoman in the middle -- AND ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!
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That would be a hell of a story. Especially once Joker shows up, since Rorschach is basically what Joker tries to turn Batman into.
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If you'd like, I can spoil a little of the Rorschach vs. Joker story to you. But only if you're interested.
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....okay.
Only a little though.
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Rorschach funnels women in two categories -- whores and virgins. While in Gotham, Rorschach will form an arm's length (professional) relationship with Oracle, but she confesses to Rorschach that she was Batgirl, who had gone missing after the Keene Act passed. How? The Joker invaded the home of Commissioner Gordon, shot her, raped, and crippled her. And what did the almighty Batman, the so-called avenger of justice, do? Nothing! He threw the Joker in an asylum and threw him in the lap of the fat government officals. He never properly punished him for the crime! Instead, he COMPROMISED! It's weak! It's soft! And Rorschach is outraged -- and goes out on a manhunt for the Clown Prince of Crime.
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That will be a hell of a fight. I half pity the Batman, because you know he'll got caught in the middle of all that.
And Joker will either be surprised, or delighted that there's a crime-fighter who actually kills. Very frequently.
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I hope it will be a great fight. I really want to milk it for all it's worth, where his first confrontation with him where he fights the Joker alone, who is unprepared for him, so he finds it "unfair". The second time, the Joker is ready for him and is forced to join Batman to put him down. It's a nice way to close the series.
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T_T
Poor Rorschach. Put down as in kill, or put down as in sent to prison?
Because if you have him sent to prison, it'd be a neat closing scene to have him have a visitor, and when she goes in the room and the cops exit, he recognizes it as Catwoman. Have them talk briefly, the last statement is a very strong allusion to Catwoman that she's about to bust him out, and the curtain drops, end of the show.
Won't even need a sequel. It'd be an ending similar to the one in Watchmen when the guy is about to pick up Rorschach's journal.
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That's the problem. Rorschach would kill and Batman would prefer prison. The argument starts all over again.
But there is a story there Batman throws Rorschach in Arkham at one point, meeting Dr. Harleen Quinzel. And Catwoman does bust him out.
However, the ending isn't that too ambiguous. This takes place between the years olf 1977 to 1985 where we don't know what ROrschach did between those years. So it's obviously he went back to New York.
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I see.
That explains how he managed to stay out of prison, despite continuing his work. No way you could stay in the same city that long and be as active as Rorschach without getting caught.
This promises to be very good.
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The basic plot of that episode is this: Dr. Harleen Quinzel, as it's 1977 and before the Joker's hold on her, cameo as Rorschach's psychologist when he gets thrown into Arkham by the holier-than-thou Batman. During his incarnation, he learns the serial killer Mr. Zsasz has been escaping nightly to murder to come back at morning. Selina and he solve the case and orchestrate a breakout for Rorschach. Batman finds his work on the Zsasz case impressive, he warns Rorschach not to step out of line again or get in his way and that he'll be keeping an eye on the both of them.
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I can imagine Rorschach's response to that.
"You stay out of my way. I stay out of yours. Sounds fair. Still need to work on methods though. Far too soft. Hurm."
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Pretty much!
Batman's quite the cockblocker anyway.
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Indeed. The whole thing with him in between Harvey and Rachel. Although Rachel wasn't exactly the most attractive person. At least not in the newer movies.
And I know he'll either accidentily or on purpose come between Catwoman and Rorschach.
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Well, that is the Nolan films, but he does this frequently in the Burton films, like with Vicki Vale, and the comics, more than he cares to admit.
He'll do both. He's quite the antagonist in this series.
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Seems so.
Even Rorschach doesn't cock-block. At least not that we know of.
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Well, I'll have Rorschach will cockblock ONCE. 
I always wondered where Catwoman got those goggles, as the comics never explained it, so I thought this was a good explanation on where she got them.
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So Rorschach does like Catwoman. That will be cool to read. It sounds like initially it'd be rather one-sided, with Catwoman flirting with Rorschach, and him getting used to it and maybe returning it over a period of time. It'd have to be a decent length of time though, since Rorschach outright hates the "masks" that are basically "whores". So romance would also be rather awkward for him I think.
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There's a lot of factors. Rorschach is a man, and a heterosexual one who is supposedly anti-sexual and yet obsessively talks about anything sexual into his journal (and he's just weird that way), and above all -- he's human. As a human, you have strengths and weaknesses and hypocrisies. It's part of who we are.
(Actually, no. Rorschach does not hate "masks" who are "whores", not outrightly anyway. In book, it's more detailed out. He does respect Laurie simply because she is a "mask", as an upholder of justice, which he makes her kinda necessary; he just doesn't agree with her morals when it came to her lovers (which was "whorish") and her outfit (which was "whorish"), although he did go "no offense" to her on that latter comment. At least he's semi-polite about it...
Yet I do my best to keep as in-character as possible. And, yes, it is initially one-sided. Catwoman is an notorious flirt, as we all know, and Rorschach either ignores her flirtations, or is completely oblivious to them, or he calls her a "whore" to her face, which happens actually a lot. At first, she takes it in good humour, then as it went on, you run out of witty comebacks and it tries her patience. And soon they just get on each other's nerves! Things snap and eventually smooth over, but not with a little change. So she will, bit by but, earn his respect. Nothing sexual will happen, Rorschach simply won't allow it, but she does have an ability to stir certain desires which he would think are long dead. He's human...
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You have to wonder though. If that actually happened, how long would it take for him to give in?
Because I can imagine that if Rorschach had stayed in Gotham, and thusly continued working with Catwoman, rather thn going back to his "home", evantually he'd give in.
Like you said, he's only human.
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She's certainly a reason why not to leave Gotham. Of course, Gotham would need any help it could get; it's a troubled city, but it's the companionship is a highlight. And, yessss, if he choose to stay, I suppose he MIGHT, just MIGHT, have given in to her. But we really won't know for sure.
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Oh well. Kind of makes you even sadder that he had to go back. Not only would he have lived if he stayed in Gotham, he'd have finally found a woman he could enjoy the company of.
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Yeah, it is. I have been thinking that after the series that I go an epilogue, which happens after the end of the book/film, an emotional scene where Dan breaks the news of Rorschach's death to Selina and gives her his hat.
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T_T [link]
So sad. So very, very sad.
Ozymandias had better watch out. I think Catwoman's smart enough to know it's his fault, not Dr. Manhattan's. So he'd better watch his back.
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And the ending very ambiguous. It's night and Seymour is only one there, typing up his article with a lot of effort. Selina breaks into New Frontiersman HQ to retrieve the journal, knocking Seymour to the floor. She looks at the journal, then at Seymour, you can see the gears in her head turn, and I leave it there. Leaving the audience to think of what she did afterward.
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I don't know whether I feel more sorry for Rorschach or Catwoman.
So she goes to get his journal, and when she gets it she reads the last page where Rorschach reveals it was Adrien who did it all. Will she let it out to the public and let the law take care of Adrien, or will she handle it the way Rorschach would have?
Excellent choice for an ending.
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Thanks, glad you like it. I really wanted to keep it as open ended as the book was, as the ending in the film didn't seem ambiguous enough. We just know that Catwoman is going to so something about it, we just don't know what...
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The suspense!
I can picture some peoples' reactions already.
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LOL! Yeah, it will be interesting.
Uploaded a new RiG piece last night with a snippet from the fic and I'd love to hear your opinion on them!
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All right, picture first.
I like the way you've drawn both of them, with Catwoman's rather bent, nearly relaxed position and body shape contradict with Rorschach, who is built in a more basic way, and stands very straight, hands in his pockets. So it's sort of a "relaxed, more open" person versus a "matter-of-fact, conservative" type of person. It looks like you're modeling Catwoman's suit after a more practical version of her outfit, as opposed to some of the more "comic-book" versions you see sometimes with colors like dark red, or that weird reflective black crap. It's a little too early for a final call on her, but it's not bad I have to say. Sorry if I got carried away with that, but on the whole I have to say I like the picture very much.
As for the snipet of the story, I like it very much. Rorschach was very in character, as was Catwoman. I also like how you're having Rorschach begin to fall for her in a way, without having him drop out of character, something a lot of people do. All in all, good job.
Sorry if I got carried away. But overall, I'm impressed.[link]
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Again, excuse the lateness of this response. Every time I try to answer it, Firefox screws me over for whatever reason it feels like, so I hope this goes through:
First off, thank you so much! I'm really, really happy you liked it, both the picture and the fic teaser. It really means a lot. I really wanted to show off their differences of their personalities with their poses, while Rorschach is stiff, Catwoman is more relaxed. As for Catwoman's costume, I opted for something practical, sexy, yet timeless. A costume which you can glance at and immediately know it's Catwoman. Something that seemed thick and durable, that would protect you from the elements. I did a lot of research on Catwoman costumes throughout her long history and picked and chose what I liked and disliked and settled for this because it met all the requirements and then some. I'm still up in the air for heels or no heels, lol!
As for the story itself, again, thank you! Glad you liked it! And I'm revealed you said it was in-character. That's a load off my back.
"I also like how you're having Rorschach begin to fall for her in a way, without having him drop out of character..." WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (runs around her house, squealing for joy) Someone noticed it! YAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! (dances) I wanted to be subtle. No large confessions, no chick flick moments, nothing major, but little, tiny things, which could be easily overlooked yet when noticed, they would say volumes about the character. That felt right for Rorschach.
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Any large display of emotion other than pissed off, is out of character for Rorschach. It takes a long time for a person like him to open up at all, which speaks volumes about his friendship with Dan, I think.
I can imagine a rather awkward series of early encounters between Rorschach and Catwoman. Rorschach completely uneffected by Catwoman's general attempts at seduction, and Rorschach frustrated to find that she can so easily get away from him, given the difference in how they would retreat. For example, where Rorschach jumps through a window, she does a leap to another rooftop, and then to the street below.
At the same time though, considering the tatical way of thinking that I think they both display, it wouldn't take long for them to figure out that their styles rather compliment each other. You've got Rorschach, who's basically a tank, albeit a short one, that can use anything he finds as a weapon, and Catwoman, who could sneak through while Rorschach acts as a distraction, or can surprise the enemy from a blindside. Of course, I can easily imagine the two of them getting in arguments over how to approach a situation as well.
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THAT I don't believe. I don't believe the only large display of emotions boil down to anger and rage because we know that's not true. We know he can smile. We know he can tell a joke. We know he can feel depressed. We know he can be meditative. We know he can feel disgust. We know he can fear. And we know he can cry -- and epically so. Because, first and foremost, he's human, with all the wants, desires, troubles, psychologies, hypocrisies, doubts, dreams, nightmares, and emotions that apply. What we know of him is what he reveals publicly and in his journal in the book/film, which is a snippet of time, but privately, we know nothing. I really want to touch on Rorschach's moments that are very private and personal -- emotionally, psychologically, etc. because that's the side he keeps hidden, that's the side the reveals the most about him, and that's side the could hurt and touch him the most when revealed and broken down. That's what I want to touch. Emotions are just a part of him as his "face".
And, yes, their first encounters were awkward. Although I don't believe Rorschach was wholly unaffected by Catwoman's attempts to get his attention. She stole his damn grappling gun at one point! 
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Don't get me wrong, I agree that Rorschach has other things going for him. But he's reluctant to show anything, with glimpses into his real emotions. For example, his apologizing to Dan, and his expressions of grief over the Comedian's death. It's not that he doesn't show them, it's that it would probably feel rather awkward for him.
But that may change in Gotham. We've got Poison Ivy, who will likely control him with her powers. That would, psychologically, devestate Rorschach. To lose control of himself, I can picture the after-effects of that really messing him up, plus the whole time he'd be controlled he'd probably be mentally screaming at himself, trying to get control back.
And if Catwoman really does fall for with Rorschach by the time he goes back to New York, I can't wait to watch the transition from just messing with Rorschach, to her realizing she actually means it.
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He IS reluctant to show his emotions. Yes, he did express depression after leaving Dan's place, grief at the Comedian's death, etc, but that's all expressed to himself. There was no one else there to acknowledge it. The only time it was sense by other people was when he shook Dan's hand and at his own death, "DO IT!", in front of Manhattan. It's easier for him to hide them than express them. But does that change in Gotham? He's certainly forced into his face by villains. For example, Ivy for all the reasons you've given there. Also other villains, like Scarecrow who will force Rorschach to acknowledge his nightmares and fears about his childhood, with particular emphasis with his mother and truth of his biological father. Another is the Mad Hatter who will force Rorschach to reveal his dreams and fantasies, which are really fucked up when you analyse it
Does Catwoman really fall for Rorschach? And perhaps vice versa.
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Rorschach's fantasies?
I don't know whether to be interested, or to hide in a corner. That would be some weird stuff, to be sure.
Would Riddler ever interact with Rorschach? I mean, Rorschach doesn't seem intelligent, but that little thing he did in Adrian's office with the Egyptian gods and stuff shows he actually knows an awful lot. Or at least an awful lot of trivia.
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Rorschach's dreams and fantasies, yeah, there's cause to be concerned. Mad Hatter gives Rorschach his own personal "Wonderland," his perfect world, which is very "fucked up" when you think about it. He wakes up in his New York apartment and looks out his window into his dreamworld, which is all styroform and rice cakes on white paint: It's sooooooo stale, starched out, bleached, sterile, and completely unpalatable to the audience, except for Rorschach. However, the flaws come out: There is no crime, therefore there's no need for costumed vigilantes. There is no war or fear of nuclear destruction, only peace, thus there's no need for a doomsday prophet to hold up an "End is Nigh" sign. There's no whores, pimps, gays, pornographers, junkies, dopers, thieves, rapists, murderers, liberals, Commies, politicians, racial minorities, etc. -- there's no scum! Then you stick Selina into this "perfect picture," but it's not really her, but Rorschach's own idealization of her, which is (again) "fucked up" when you think about it. And how would that affect him?
The Riddler story doesn't reall involve Rorschach. Originally, it did but, although Rorschach isn't stupid, he isn't cerebral (I believe that's the word), unfortunately, so he got cut out of the story really quick. It involves actually Adrian Veidt. Veidt comes to Gotham for partnership negotiations with Wayne Enterprises, which will strengthen Veidt's international footing several fold and together plan to create a "free energy" idea, ominously foreshadowing his "New World" (where the events of the book/film will occurs in six years times). 
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That works pretty for Adrian and the Riddler.
For Rorschach's fantasies, at the same time you wonder if that'd all make sense. Rorschach seems like the person who doesn't believe in perfection. He might even reject the "fantasy world" while he was still in it. That would have some pretty negative effects on him. Especially since in a world without crime, without scum, Rorschach would have no purpose. He believes that Walter Kovacs is the disguise, so I daresay he would despise, maybe even fear, having to stay Kovacs forever, because without a need for Rorschach, there'd be no reason to ever put on his "face". [link]
Also, what is Rorschach's idea of the perfect woman? Not an upper-class, or middle-class person. Definitly not lower-class. So, how would he see Selina? Would she still be Catwoman? Or would she be her civilian persona? However it works out that would mess him up pretty badly I think.
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The Riddler episode is perhaps going to the most difficult story to do, to get all the events straighten, and above all, the riddles. I'm alright at solving riddles, but making them up? That's soooooo hard!
Rorschach, yes, is his "face," however the heart and soul behind Rorschach is Walter Kovacs. He created Rorschach. Kovacs hides behind the "face" of Rorschach because Kovacs can get hurt, Kovacs can break, Rorschach cannot. And when you remove Rorschach from the picture, when the purpose of Rorschach's existence is deleted, Kovacs has NOWHERE else to hide: He becomes defenseless! Eventually, Rorschach DOES reject his own "Wonderland" -- BUT, note, that this character who is in constantly psychological pain every moment of his life. The prospect of being content, happy, at peace, to be without any pain, without suffering, and that it could never touch you again -- just the prospect of it -- is sooooooo seductive. Just for a moment like that. Just for a taste of it. Would you fight for that? Would you die for it? The Mad Hatter has fashioned a prison where Kovacs (without Rorschach at his defence) could not leave without sacrificing his heart's desires; it would be like tearing off his own arm.
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So he'd be caught between being free of himself, and living the truth. Both of which Rorschach would greatly desire. He'd be caught between the part of him that is content to maybe, for once, be happy, or to face reality head on. That would tear him in two.
Who else would really effect Rorschach enough to show up? Deadshot would be interesting, but you wouldn't be able to delve very deep at all with him. Same goes for Ra's al Ghul......
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To live a lie, or to live the truth? The soul is just ripped in two. 
Really all the characters affect Rorschach in some manner. Scarecrow has a deep scars him as well. I have only have two or three conceptual stories for Deadshot, so far, but he has a deeper effect on Batman than Rorschach because Batman's life was ruined by guns, Rorschach's was not. Ra's al-Ghul....well, I thought a lot about bring him in, but I doubt he would have any interest in Rorschach. Talia and Selina, however, have a lot of bad blood between them due to their more intimate relations with Batman...
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And when you add Rorschach to the equation, things get interesting quickly, especially if Catwoman asks for his help.
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That would be interesting: Talia vs. Selina and Rorschach comes to help. But would Rorschach even care enough to get in the middle of a lover's quarrel?
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Hmm. I guess it would depend. If Talia had done something illegal or questionable, he might investigate. But it'd be unlikely he'd directly get involved, unless he had proof of her doing illegal activities. If it's late enough in story, and he's really fallen for Catwoman without admitting to it, Selina's word might be enough for him to at least take a look. It could probably turn out a few different ways actually.
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Well, I could just let Ra's and Talia kidnap Bruce Wayne in front of Selina, asking Rorschach to help her may stir some jealousies inside him, as Wayne is a wealthy, pampered, liberal fat-cat that she used to date occasionally. But...that's kidnapping Batman! It's rather improbable to do that successfully, so it comes off as silly.
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