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shenanigan87 — Epic Race
Published: 2009-07-30 20:47:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 452; Favourites: 17; Downloads: 0
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What an epic race! A classic engine pulled train and a powered head pushed train side by side, what Germans would call "Parallelfahrt", parallel run. Shot from the observation deck of the KölnTriangle, a high rise office building that has a roof you can ride the elevator to for a small fee.What we see here is the station Cologne Deutz/Trade Fair, on the side of the Rhine opposite to Cologne Central. What I find very nice about this pic is how hit shows that the first and second generation ICE trains are rather un-innovative from a technical point of view. The powered head is based on the class 120 multiphase electric (which also pulls InterCity trains), so a powered head train isn't that much better than a classic train. There are two trainsets that are very similar to the second gen ICE, namely the former Metropolitan, the MET trainsets, They look almost like a regular IC, but the carriages can only be parted in the shop etc. This sums it up: Not much different than a classic train, but less practical. You can't couple or uncouple carriages according to expected passenger numbers, the amount of power supplied by the engine remains unchanged as opposed to EMUs with distributed power, all in all, not that great.
Not to mention that if the cab car has some technical problems, you can't just run the engine around the train and hook it up in front of the cab car, as the powered head has only one cab...
What do you think? Do powered head trains provide any advantages apart from improved aerodynamics?
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Comments: 26
und im Hintergrund noch schön eine MRB26 *g* Wobei ich die 460 ja hässlichfinde im gegensatz zu den 426igern.
Der ICE2 war definitiv n rückschritt, aber man wollte ja wieder zeigen das es auch mit der Push n Pull geht. (mal davon abegesehn das er drinnen grausiger ausschaut wie n ICE 1...)
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Congratulations, you win a cookie!
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a cookie, climbed the whole way up, and I get only a cookie!?
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Hmm, on second thought, you don't deserve the cookie... *eats it*
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No, don´t eat my Cookie!!!!
*cries for the lost of his well deserved cookie*
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So, hat lange gedauert, aber jetzt bin ich auch hier. 
Neben der Aerodynamik, die bei 250 km/h sicher nicht zu vernachlässigen ist, sehe ich noch andere Gründe. Der Zug kann bei einem Triebzug dedizierte Kupplungen und Datenleitungen verwenden, und kann so z.B. mehr Informationen in der Lok oder im Steuerwagen haben. Auch möglich ist ein Übergang von der Lok in den Zug während der Fahrt, wobei ich nicht weiß, ob das tatsächlich verwendet wird. Zu guter letzt ist aber einfach der Punkt: Wofür würdest du die Loks sonst einsetzen? Loks mit diesen Parametern mussten ja erst beschafft werden, so schnelle Dinger hatte man nie in Deutschland (und in fast jedem ICE-Lauf ist irgend eine Hochgeschwindigkeits- oder Ausbaustrecke mit drin, bei der er seine Geschwindigkeit doch mal ausfahren kann). Wenn man jetzt weiß, dass sie immer nur mit einem Zug eingesetzt werden (du darfst ja nicht vergessen, dass die meisten Intercities auch nie getrennt werden), dann ist der Vorteil einer normalen, separaten Lok sehr gering.
Nebenbei, beim Metropolitan oder dem Österreichischen Äquivalent, dem Railjet, kannst du auch nicht einfach Wagen einfügen oder rausnehmen, da diese ebenfalls keine konventionelle Kupplung haben. Zum Punkt mit dem kaputten Steuerwagen wäre interessant, wie sehr dies tatsächlich ein Problem ist. Die meisten Probleme mit den ICE 2s beziehen sich auf die Kupplung zwischen zwei Halbzügen.
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Ich würd ja jetzt einfach "Schinken!" sagen. Ich finde einfach das Prinzip irgendwie nicht so überzeugend, die praktische Anwendung ist natürlich eine andere Sache. Wenn man alle Wagen mit automatischen Kupplungen ausgerüstet hätte, oder eben einen anderen Weg eingeschlagen hätte (Wagen die schneller laufen könnten und deren Faltenbalge einfach kuppelbar wären etc.) wäre es vermutlich flexibler. Klar, solche schnellen Loks gab es damals nicht, aber so schnelle Triebkö
Ich fand es nur einfach merkwürdig, dass man einen Zugverband fest kuppelt, also man im Grunde einfach einen unflexibleren Zug hat, der nicht über die Vorteile eines Triebzuges mit verteiltem Antrieb verfügt.
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From above, everything seems small and meaningless ^^
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We don't see too many ICE 2's down here. All I ever see are ICE 1's, ICE 3's, and ICE T's. You're right that the ICE 2's were more or less a joke. With only one power car, they're dead on the main if the "loco" fails. Furthermore, the ICE 2's have a lower maximum authorized speed when running in push mode, thus limiting their high speed capability.
When compared to a conventional locomotive-hauled consist, the old-school ICE trains are still an improvement. They have more-advanced suspension and braking systems, plus the closer-spaced, and more solidly-coupled cars are more stable at high speeds than regular wagons. The first and second generation ICE consists still don't hold a candle even to the Sud-Est TGV's when it comes to high speed stability though. With the articulated design and power cars, the TGV's have a lower center of gravity and far better aerodynamics than anything Siemens could offer.
I can say from my trip to France last week that when running over the same super-high speed line, the TGV rode better than the ICE 3, and it was going 20 KPH faster. We took the TGV to Paris via Karlsruhe and the ICE back via Mannheim. The distributed power arrangement of the ICE 3 is definitely an improvement over the power car arrangement on the previous ICE trains and every TGV ever built. I took Kamui to the head end of the train to enjoy the engineer's view. Unfortunately, we were still eating dinner in the bistro car when we hit the end of the LGV, so we were plodding through eastern France at only about 80 MPH when we saw the tracks ahead. It's not new though. The Japanese went with distributed power on their very first bullet train, and Alstom has finally seen the light with their AGV, which will shortly go into service on Italy's Diretissimas.
The long and short of it is, that many of Deutsche Bahn's high speed routes are so fraught with medium-speed stretches in between, the ICE trains don't get much of a chance to outrun an IC. For example, between Heidelberg and Frankfurt, or Mannheim and Frankfurt, they have identical maximum authorized speeds, thus leaving the ICE trains to make the run faster based exclusively on a shorter list of intermediate stops. On the HD-FR route, all IC's and ICE's stop at Weinheim, Bensheim, and Darmstadt, thus making their running times identical. With that in hand, the only reason people would pay extra to ride the ICE is for the smoother ride and plusher interiors.
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Lover maximum speed? I didn't know about that... I only heard about restrictions on windy days, with measuring equipment installed at places like bridges etc., so if there's a strong wind, the LZB would slow the train down if it's travelling cab car forward.
Well, the problem I see here is that the exact same advantages could have been reached by just designing better carriages, as seen in the MET trains. They have better suspension, can travel faster than conventional IC trains, they are in fact not that different from the ICE. And should the cab car have technical problems, you could just run the loco around and keep going. I just wondered whether the advantages of the ICE couldn't have been achieved easier and cheaper, but I'm no engineer, so I can only speculate.
As for the high speed part, yes, that's a nuisance. The only tracks where trains like the ICE3 make sense is of course the "Rennstrecke" to Frankfurt, built especially for them. I rode a train on it once up to a bit more than 300kph, and it was like freaking flying through the landscape
But as I've mentioned earlier, ticket prices are way, way too high, so we still go everywhere by car, even larger distances, like to Neckarsulm to fetch our new Audi. It's cheaper to drive there with one and back with two cars than JUST one trip there for two people...
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To be honest, I think the first ICE trains were mostly a ruse to charge higher ticket prices. Perhaps in another 20 years, when Germany's high speed network is more extensive, the ICE trains will finally start making a serious difference in travel times. That's where the French and the Spaniards have really left England and Germany in the dust. They have more miles of high speed line than DB, and they have more on the drawing boards. I'm looking forward to the day when DB and SNCF join together with a nonstop high speed line from Paris to Berlin via Frankfurt. That'll be the day when high speed trains really start making a difference. The English have proven the method with the opening of High Speed 1 and its nonstop, high speed lines from London to Paris and Brussels.
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Another 20 years... I think the DB will send them first and maybe second gens to the Bender by that time... At least that's how I'd picture it in my imagination. 
But I don't really know whether such high speed lines will be as popular as some hope. I mean, we just bought plane tickets to Budapest for a mere 50€ per person. Sure, you have to get to the airport, security hassle and all that, but it gets you there in a good one and a half hours, a lot faster than the fastest trains, as every airliner could easily outrun even the TGV doing its record run. I don't really know whether trains can hold up against cars and planes in this secotor... And I also hope that if such line gets built, there will be more ICE trains than TGVs
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I agree with you there. The Atlantique sets are the best looking high speed trains ever built in Europe...at least until the ICE 3 came out. It's hard to beat the classic 100 Series Shinkansen for awesome styling though...
As for the competition between rail and air, the accepted standard in the 'States is that high speed trains compete in the 100-500 mile sector, and domestic air travel takes over beyond that. I personally believe though, that with sufficient high speed lines to get a train from coast to coast in 12 hours, Amtrak could sell out night train service from Chicago to the coasts and relegate the airlines to the daytime and transcontinental runs.
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Great angle, interesting as well. Though by the look of the station I don't know why the Thalys stops there and not in Cologne Central...
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Just saw this comment somewhat belatedly: The Thalys does not stop there. It stops in Cologne Central. Anybody who ever told you anything, even (or in fact in particularly) if it was me, was lying.
The Thalys does pass through there, on the way to the rail yard in the background for cleaning and stuff, but that's all.
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I don't really know whether the Thalys stops there, but I assume you said that because you know it. The reason probably lies in the fact that there are two parts of Deutz, the larger upper one we see here, and the lower one, with the two rails going through under, so that trains that would otherwise have to reverse in Cologne Central can just avoid crossing the Rhine. If you look at this pic [link] you can see that the train on the lower photo is parked at a long curving platform that would be the other side of the one you can see just above the cupola.
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And I thank you for prompting me to look back, as I never saw the Talents of the Euregiobahn in the railway yards to the top right hand corner...
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To be honest, I wouldn't have spotted them with this pic size, I just knew they were there
So you are a train senser after all ^^
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Ich weiß leider nicht wer gewonnen hat ^^
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